ESS 575 vs 600 vs 625

[AJ@ESS]

Hi,

The ESS S65 SC pulleys are actually not Vortech pulleys at all. They are a completely custom offset and made from scratch by ESS in low volume specific for this application.

The injectors used in our higher end kits are not 50USD injectors at all, they are usually ~120-130USD each on the open market. It is a high-end, long nose injector with superior atomization.

Every stage needs a special file for that stage, and they have to be generated on a case -by-case basis with car specific information in them.

[Verify]

Why are people so quick to throw out the "pay to play" slogan? Gtr, vettes, ctsv,gt500's, Audi's, vw.. all of them pay way less to "play"

[GIdriver]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

I love how people bitch and moan about prices... how about this... don't f@cking buy it then.

+1. Could not have said it better.

[avex8]

Originally Posted by Baggy_M

Why are people so quick to throw out the "pay to play" slogan? Gtr, vettes, ctsv,gt500's, Audi's, vw.. all of them pay way less to "play"

+1 agree with you. I guess m3 driver are suckers. 335 aftermarkets parts are less than half the price and they are made from the same material and factory.

you will be surprised how cheap is to make those supercharge kit.

[Stealth ///M]

Originally Posted by GIdriver

+1. Could not have said it better.

Great info, thanks!

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Stealth ///M

Great info, thanks!

lol, I think you are making good points Stealth in this and other threads. I see you are taking the responses in good fun as well.

I agree the prices for the kits seem high. I purchased a complete Vortech kit for another car and got a custom tune + upgraded cog pulley for 1/4 of the price of the ones for the M3. But you know what...I've ordered an M3 and when it arrives, the supercharger will follow shortly.

In the end the cost to the manufacturer is irrelevant. Pricing is based on what the market with bare. And the market has spoken. It's simple price elasticity.

I wish you luck with your turbo kit on S65 mentioned on the other thread. The key for the upgraded single turbo on the 335 N54's was the manifold. It took 6 years before the first 335's came out that a real turbo upgrade was possible. I haven't followed the R&D on the turbo M3's but my sense is that the manifold would be the most difficult part of the project.

[ferraribrad]

Simple supply/demand economics.

If you are convinced the price is too high, then you are also saying there is a big untapped market (demand), that don't want the current product offering.

Instead of bitching about it on an internet forum, you should take out a business loan and create a similar or better product for a much lower selling price (should be easy to do, since the current suppliers are ripping everyone off, right??)

Until then, respect the current reputable suppliers, and realize that they might have a better understanding of how for-profit-business works...

-Brad

[Stealth ///M]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

lol, I think you are making good points Stealth in this and other threads. I see you are taking the responses in good fun as well.

I agree the prices for the kits seem high. I purchased a complete Vortech kit for another car and got a custom tune + upgraded cog pulley for 1/4 of the price of the ones for the M3. But you know what...I've ordered an M3 and when it arrives, the supercharger will follow shortly.

In the end the cost to the manufacturer is irrelevant. Pricing is based on what the market with bare. And the market has spoken. It's simple price elasticity.

I wish you luck with your turbo kit on S65 mentioned on the other thread. The key for the upgraded single turbo on the 335 N54's was the manifold. It took 6 years before the first 335's came out that a real turbo upgrade was possible. I haven't followed the R&D on the turbo M3's but my sense is that the manifold would be the most difficult part of the project.

Thanks,

Pardon the short reply, it's 6am and I only got 4 hours of sleep.

The problem I foresee with the single turbo on the S65 will be the routing of the downpipe. It's either going to be
extremely tricky and slither about and around all the clutter and suspension in the front, or be in your face *BAM*, couldn't do it any other way.

Either way, should be interesting.

Carry on!

[E90///M3`]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

I love how people bitch and moan about prices... how about this... don't f@cking buy it then.

you gave me lulz...

on a serious note: AJ@ESS answered some questions for the OP. Personally, i can't wait to upgrade my 535 kit to a 600... i got a chance to run biglare and it's a huge difference at the track

[Verify]

Originally Posted by E90///M3`

you gave me lulz...

on a serious note: AJ@ESS answered some questions for the OP. Personally, i can't wait to upgrade my 535 kit to a 600... i got a chance to run biglare and it's a huge difference at the track

How big of a difference, what were the times for both

[E90///M3`]

Originally Posted by Baggy_M

How big of a difference, what were the times for both

here's the video for you. remember, i have the lowly vt1-535 against these 600 and 620 kits. if you watch i have two runs against biglare's VT2-600 dct and one run against my friend Marvin's new VF620 dct. biglare's runs against me are around 1:59 and 3:35. Marvin's VF620 was 2:45. granted, my run against biglare at 1:59 i totally missed 2nd gear (embarrassing, i know ).

but if you compare the runs... biglare seems to absolutely walk me and continue pulling through the quarter and even at the end. not that i have anything against VF but it looks to me like the VF car didn't have "as much" top-end at the VT2-600 car.

[JDM3]

What's the elevation at this track?

[m33]

Something crazy like 3,000+ ft

[m33]

Let me get this straight E90//M3 ...
1) your 6mt 535
2) Larry is DCT 600
3) VF620 is DCT ????
And Larry put 3-4 cars on you meanwhile the VF barley put 1&1/2 cars on you ,shit you pretty much stood side by side until the end where he nosed ahead of you ...
Pretty impressive !!

[erm324]

Originally Posted by m33

Let me get this straight E90//M3 ...
1) your 6mt 535
2) Larry is DCT 600
3) VF620 is DCT ????
And Larry put 3-4 cars on you meanwhile the VF barley put 1&1/2 cars on you ,shit you pretty much stood side by side until the end where he nosed ahead of you ...
Pretty impressive !!

VERY impressive lol

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by m33

Let me get this straight E90//M3 ...
1) your 6mt 535
2) Larry is DCT 600
3) VF620 is DCT ????
And Larry put 3-4 cars on you meanwhile the VF barley put 1&1/2 cars on you ,shit you pretty much stood side by side until the end where he nosed ahead of you ...
Pretty impressive !!

To be fair, E90//M3's M3 puts out quite a bit more HP than "typical" 535 kits.

Undoubtedly, all 3 cars are fast.

[m33]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

To be fair, E90//M3's M3 puts out quite a bit more HP than "typical" 535 kits.

Undoubtedly, all 3 cars are fast.

agreed , respect to all three cars

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

To be fair, E90//M3's M3 puts out quite a bit more HP than "typical" 535 kits.

Undoubtedly, all 3 cars are fast.

Good point Tom, his car has an upgraded pulley and has dynoed some solid #'s.

Bring some cars to the next Shift-sector event at Big Willow June 9th. There is going to be quite a few cars there that one would not normally see that often or get the chance to run.

MP4-12
458
Alpha 9 GTR
ZR1
Bolt on GTR's
Ford GT's
Supercharged M3's
etc....

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by m33

Something crazy like 3,000+ ft

The DA was higher than that this year and last, 4000' +!

[GrumpyBimmerFan]

wow... altitude plays that big of a role huh? I would think that a SC m3 would run at least low 12's... Looking at your 60ft, that seems a bit high, is that due to altitude too?

I haven't taken M3 to the strip yet (not really planning on it right now), but from the past I've seen stock run very low 13's, high 12's.... shoot, my stage 1(tune only) STI ran 12.9.

[NFAM3]

Originally Posted by kotik

wow... altitude plays that big of a role huh? I would think that a SC m3 would run at least low 12's... Looking at your 60ft, that seems a bit high, is that due to altitude too?

I haven't taken M3 to the strip yet (not really planning on it right now), but from the past I've seen stock run very low 13's, high 12's.... shoot, my stage 1(tune only) STI ran 12.9.

I was thinking the same exact thing. With exhaust, tune and pulley, I ran a 12.5@112 or 113. I haven't taken my car to the track with the supercharger yet but I don't know if I'm setting my standards too high, I was expecting at least a low 11. I'm in FL so I'm at sea level. I have the ESS 625. Guess I'll find out tonight.

[erm324]

^the ess 625 is capable of mid tens with a low 60ft, traction, and good track conditions/DA...pay more attention to your trap, its a better representation of how much power yoru putting down