E85 Fuel

[Oshin02]

I have seen the EVO guys tune for E85 fuel and have seen substantial gains. Of corse the EVO's will see more gains due to being force fed. But as for naturally aspirated setups, such as the E92 M3. Has any tuner or individual messed with this? (NA or FI)

[IMG]

I looked into this but the hassle of changing the fuel pump,lines,injectors and tuning is going to be a bit of a headache.
Ive seen it done on a couple of 997T and GT500 but no M3s yet.

[phusion974]

Originally Posted by img

I looked into this but the hassle of changing the fuel pump,lines,injectors and tuning is going to be a bit of a headache.
Ive seen it done on a couple of 997T and GT500 but no M3s yet.

+1

[phusion974]

If you want more power just go with MS109. You can have your tuner make you a separate race fuel map to switch over with your initial tune every time you run race gas.

[TMR]

Or go for the Vishnu PRoceed and Meth kit

[m33]

Drink smart water !

[akh23456]

Originally Posted by m33

Drink smart water !

no vitamin water?

[Gfunk720]

I too am waiting for someone to figure this out. I may have to take the plunge myself, and see how it goes. I ran E85 on my STI for almost a year, and loved every second of it. The decreased range sucks a bit, but buying race gas for under $4 is great.

Originally Posted by img

I looked into this but the hassle of changing the fuel pump,lines,injectors and tuning is going to be a bit of a headache.
Ive seen it done on a couple of 997T and GT500 but no M3s yet.

The lines probably don't need to be changed, as they are designed to resist ethanol corrosion. You probably do need bigger injectors and a FP or FPR though.

Originally Posted by phusion974

If you want more power just go with MS109. You can have your tuner make you a separate race fuel map to switch over with your initial tune every time you run race gas.

MS109=$8-10 a gallon
E-85= $3.50 a gallon

You can essentially make similar power for 1/3 of the price.

[IMG]

E85 burns faster,so you go thru it faster.Def need bigger lines to accommodate more flow .

[Gfunk720]

Originally Posted by img

E85 burns faster,so you go thru it faster.Def need bigger lines to accommodate more flow .

As I said, you may need to increase the base fuel pressure to supply enough fuel but the lines probably wont hold you back. Has someone confirmed that bigger lines are need, or are you simply speculating? Maybe on a FI car with substantial modification you may see the limits of the stock lines, but I doubt it. With puny little 250cc injectors stock, you should be easily be able up fuel supply by 30%

I'm just starting to learn about the stock fuel system on the s65 motor, but nothing is pointing to the fact that E85 cannot be used. I know PencilGeek was working on a E85 conversion motor for the Texas Mile, but haven't seen an update in a while. I'm by no means experienced with these cars, but think a lot of people overthink E85 conversions.

Anyone know off the top of their head what the stock base fuel pressure or BSFC is on these S65 is?

[Longboarder]

The 335's are using it with modified tunes under both the JB and Vishnu platforms, with substantial gains even over a max boost with race gas (100 octane) set up. No other modifications are required insofar that the e85 is mixed 50/50 with pump gas. People have been running this for months - one guy for nearly a year - with no issues. I understand that from time to time, these guys will occasionally run a tank of pure pump gas to "clear" anything left from the e85.

By the way the car running it for a year (20,000 miles) is a 535 with just a tune and dci and it made 406 to the wheels with a 50/50 e85/91 octane mix. Crazy. Here's a link to a new active thread about how long the n54 335's have been running it:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699590

Since Vishnu tunes both the 335's and M3's, they would likely know the differences in the fuel line/pump hardware between the 335 and M3 and could be more helpful regarding recommending whether the M3 fuel system is capable of handing some mixture of e85, and of course, providing the tune to take advantage of it.

[Gfunk720]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

The 335's are using it with modified tunes under both the JB and Vishnu platforms, with substantial gains even over a max boost with race gas (100 octane) set up. No other modifications are required insofar that the e85 is mixed 50/50 with pump gas. People have been running this for months - one guy for nearly a year - with no issues. I understand that from time to time, these guys will occasionally run a tank of pure pump gas to "clear" anything left from the e85.

By the way the car running it for a year (20,000 miles) is a 535 with just a tune and dci and it made 406 to the wheels with a 50/50 e85/91 octane mix. Crazy. Here's a link to a new active thread about how long the n54 335's have been running it:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699590

Since Vishnu tunes both the 335's and M3's, they would likely know the differences in the fuel line/pump hardware between the 335 and M3 and could be more helpful regarding recommending whether the M3 fuel system is capable of handing some mixture of e85, and of course, providing the tune to take advantage of it.

Exactly. My old 2005 STI made similar power on E85 as it did on VP109. I ran it for almost a year with no issues what so ever, and ran no standard gasoline in that time period. I have several Subaru friend who have logged tens of thousands of miles with no adverse issues related to the E-85. I know of a few guys down in Central and South America running straigh E-100 without issue.

While there is certainly more power to be found on FI setups, N/A cars can probably pick up some power as well. Not sure why you would mix it as opposed to running straight E-85. I suppose to prevent a error code for fuel mixture? (Didn't realize these cars did that). While it does decrease range and ability to fill up at any station, I primarily use my M for weekend cruises that are usually pretty short.

My guess is that some 400-500cc injectors and a 300-400lph FP would give you plenty of headroom, possibly even on a FI setup. By upping your base fuel pressure, you may be able to do it on even smaller injectors(Especially if mixing 91+E85).

It's wierd though, as it seems as though there isn't a whole lot of information on the E9X fuel systems online. Would definitely be curious if Vishnu has looked into this at all.

[IrickDante]

I looked into this but the hassle of changing the fuel

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by IrickDante

I looked into this but the hassle of changing the fuel

[prodigymb]

E85 is good stuff, especially on FI cars. It will let the tuner run more timing on the tunes.

You do have to get bigger lines, injectors and pumps. M3 has no return stock, you will probably want to run an FPR and a return line to make tuning idle and part throttle easier. Since you have 8 injectors they are not very large even on the supercharged cars. Rule of thumb is you need flow 35% more E85 to make the same power you are on gas.

Decreased range and limited availability is a drawback for sure. But IMO it beats running the car on 109 and storing huge 55gal barrels of it.

[SegrestEllenl]

I looked into this but the hassle of changing the fuel pump