BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
Mporium BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-19-2013, 03:28 AM   #23
Transfer
Major General
Transfer's Avatar
5244
Rep
5,874
Posts

Drives: Bronco Wildtrak, Tesla MYP
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Issaquah, WA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by arter View Post
I have gone over an hour with it and no problems.
The driver is not rated longer than that
Me too. It's so good that I'm sold on DCT for every car I own now.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 09:18 AM   #24
Billj747
Captain
Billj747's Avatar
United_States
162
Rep
658
Posts

Drives: Everything
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoFlo

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
As far as adding (larger, aftermarket) heat exchangers go, the consensus seems to be that they don't prevent temp from skyrocketting. What they do is, once the temp shoots up, the temp will drop down rapidly in a mere half a lap of cool-down lap - enabling the driver to may be put in 2 or 3 more hot laps in that session. In comparison, I was envious of GT3's running 10 to 12 hot laps and the oil temp indicator steadily being at 220F or so during the entire time.
Larger DCT heat exchangers don't prevent your engine oil temp from skyrocketting? -They shouldn't. They should prevent the DCT from overheating/going into limp mode/short shifting or not downshifting by keeping the trans temps in check. If you want to keep the engine oil temps down, then you need to upgrade the engine oil cooler with a larger one for continuous tracking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
As far as DCT being faster, at our non-professional, HPDE level, I don't know how beneficial it might be. Somebody mentioned that DCT is 2 seconds faster than 6MT, but perhaps he meant "if a DCT driver tries 6MT, he'll be 2 seconds slower than his DCT lap time"? If so, I say, tracking in 6MT and heel-and-toe'ing isn't no monumental achievement that's next-to-impossible to master. Nothing one can't get up to speed on by tracking 6MT for 5+ track days. The logic of some people...
I'd guess at a non-professional level, the difference between the non-pro and a pro would be greater in a 6MT than DCT. For 6MT vs. DCT in a pro-pro comparison, the shorter gear ratios and quicker upshifts would still result in a significant lap time benefit for a pro.

I would still love to back-to-back a stock DCT and 6MT and datalog it.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 12:51 PM   #25
lutfy
Captain
lutfy's Avatar
248
Rep
632
Posts

Drives: G87 M2, NASA ST5 86, Defender
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Washington DC

iTrader: (1)

No issues with track days including close to 100 summer at Summit Point.

Love the transmission, would never go back to a manual (yes it's that good).
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 02:23 PM   #26
OC3
Havin' a blast!
OC3's Avatar
United_States
123
Rep
4,847
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Just came in from session #3 at Chuckwalla (85F right now). Ran only 3 hot laps b4 temp gauge hot 285 >:I
__________________
BRP 1:56 | CVR 2:01 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 02:25 PM   #27
OC3
Havin' a blast!
OC3's Avatar
United_States
123
Rep
4,847
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
As far as adding (larger, aftermarket) heat exchangers go, the consensus seems to be that they don't prevent temp from skyrocketting. What they do is, once the temp shoots up, the temp will drop down rapidly in a mere half a lap of cool-down lap - enabling the driver to may be put in 2 or 3 more hot laps in that session. In comparison, I was envious of GT3's running 10 to 12 hot laps and the oil temp indicator steadily being at 220F or so during the entire time.
Larger DCT heat exchangers don't prevent your engine oil temp from skyrocketting? -They shouldn't. They should prevent the DCT from overheating/going into limp mode/short shifting or not downshifting by keeping the trans temps in check. If you want to keep the engine oil temps down, then you need to upgrade the engine oil cooler with a larger one for continuous tracking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
As far as DCT being faster, at our non-professional, HPDE level, I don't know how beneficial it might be. Somebody mentioned that DCT is 2 seconds faster than 6MT, but perhaps he meant "if a DCT driver tries 6MT, he'll be 2 seconds slower than his DCT lap time"? If so, I say, tracking in 6MT and heel-and-toe'ing isn't no monumental achievement that's next-to-impossible to master. Nothing one can't get up to speed on by tracking 6MT for 5+ track days. The logic of some people...
I'd guess at a non-professional level, the difference between the non-pro and a pro would be greater in a 6MT than DCT. For 6MT vs. DCT in a pro-pro comparison, the shorter gear ratios and quicker upshifts would still result in a significant lap time benefit for a pro.

I would still love to back-to-back a stock DCT and 6MT and datalog it.
My car doesn't have any aftermarket heat exchanger. I was relaying what M3/DCT guys w/ such were saying
__________________
BRP 1:56 | CVR 2:01 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 02:33 PM   #28
Sebringjetta
Brigadier General
Sebringjetta's Avatar
United_States
309
Rep
3,675
Posts

Drives: E46m3
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sacramento

iTrader: (39)

so what i have gathered from all the post is dct is a great way to go...comes down to 3 pedals or 2....
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 05:43 PM   #29
OC3
Havin' a blast!
OC3's Avatar
United_States
123
Rep
4,847
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Update from Chuckwalla: ran session #5 by shifting less and, despite being about 5F hotter than the morning, temp gauge stayed at 255F. But, lap time was slower by around 1.5 sec
__________________
BRP 1:56 | CVR 2:01 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 05:45 PM   #30
Billj747
Captain
Billj747's Avatar
United_States
162
Rep
658
Posts

Drives: Everything
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoFlo

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
My car doesn't have any aftermarket heat exchanger. I was relaying what M3/DCT guys w/ such were saying
Were you talking about other DCT guys' with a DCT heat exchanger?

Seriously, GET A LARGER ENGINE OIL COOLER!!! -so you can track your car without overheating the oil temps.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 08:55 PM   #31
arter
collecting toys
arter's Avatar
41
Rep
810
Posts

Drives: M3 MCB
Join Date: May 2008
Location: rochester, ny

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
Were you talking about other DCT guys' with a DCT heat exchanger?

Seriously, GET A LARGER ENGINE OIL COOLER!!! -so you can track your car without overheating the oil temps.

Agree big time. My M24 oil cooler has dropped my oil temps on the track by 30F. The DCT has its own smaller cooler, but I haven't noticed any issues with mine, but I am not driving in the desert
__________________
2011 e92 M3 Monte Carlo Blue ESS 535 - gone but not forgotten
2015 cayman GTS - new toy
2006 SLK 55 AMG sold
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2013, 09:12 PM   #32
saeedg48
Brigadier General
United_States
341
Rep
3,574
Posts

Drives: Porsche 991.1 GT3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Newport Beach, CA

iTrader: (1)

I would buy the DCT especially for track use.
__________________

2015 Porsche 991.1 GT3
2015 F80 M3 -- Individual; Space Grey
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 11:13 AM   #33
bigjae1976
Major General
bigjae1976's Avatar
1567
Rep
8,074
Posts

Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (22)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.25]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer
Love the DCT, no issues or "overheating" but did notice slow upshifts at times in extreme heat and late session, but that is all, no drop in redline/loss of power, and has not been frequent. Durable thus far
That's what I've experienced. The shifts will be noticeably slower leading up to a reduces redline if you stay on it.

I think DCT cars run hotter because it's much easier to keep the tach pinned at the redline. If you stay off the redline the n you'll have no issues.

But, I can get it really hot even in cooler weather if I give it a brutal thrashing.
__________________
2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red
2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue
2004 E46 M3 Imola Red
2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2013, 06:47 PM   #34
slicer
Major General
slicer's Avatar
2733
Rep
6,732
Posts

Drives: 'E46 M3 Race Car, '23 X7
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Wisconsin - Instagram - @slicer_m

iTrader: (39)

I have had no DCT issues in 20 minute track sessions. I have had both a 6mt and a DCT M3. They both have their pluses but I prefer DCT. The shift speed is amazing and I feel just as connected to the car running it in manual mode.
__________________
'23 X7
'04 M3 - Fall Line Motorsports Built Race Car - S65 swap, Dry Sump, Bosch Stand-Alone ECU, Drenth Sequential Trans, MCS 3-Way, Flossmann Wide Body, Brembo Motorsports Brakes, Drexler LSD, BBS E88 Etc.
INSTAGRAM - @Slicer_M
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2013, 09:10 AM   #35
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
205
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Sat in a dct car around a few laps and holy shit it shifts fast. But i am not ever going to turn pro and manual is more fun. But listening to how fast the dct shifts was fun as hell too!

I think it will come down to - how long will the fun factor be there for when driving a dct.
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2013, 11:24 AM   #36
track_warrior
Captain
track_warrior's Avatar
United_States
98
Rep
728
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Merida, Yucatan

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
I wouldn't hesitate. F1 cars and most modern Sports Car and Prototypes have paddleshifters.

As far as cooling goes, here's an upgraded heat exchanger:

http://ind-distribution.com/ind/cate...rmance/dkg-dct

And the thread on how it works:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=510178
Its hilarious what some companies charge for products for expensive cars. I could probably fabricate my own DCT cooler for less than 500 bucks.

I cant stop laughing at the price of $1,930.00 for a transmission cooler. And the funniest part is that people still buy them.
__________________
Compensating a heavy car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up...
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2013, 11:49 AM   #37
Billj747
Captain
Billj747's Avatar
United_States
162
Rep
658
Posts

Drives: Everything
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoFlo

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Sat in a dct car around a few laps and holy shit it shifts fast. But i am not ever going to turn pro and manual is more fun. But listening to how fast the dct shifts was fun as hell too!

I think it will come down to - how long will the fun factor be there for when driving a dct.
IMO I like driving paddleshift race cars more than sequential race cars -which I like more than a traditional 3-pedal setup. But I still appreciate 3pedals and daily drive them in my other cars.

It's all personal preference.

Also FWIW - a lot of prototypes/modern GT racecars auto upshift, the driver only downshifts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by track_warrior View Post
Its hilarious what some companies charge for products for expensive cars. I could probably fabricate my own DCT cooler for less than 500 bucks.

I cant stop laughing at the price of $1,930.00 for a transmission cooler. And the funniest part is that people still buy them.
I agree but some people do not want to put the time in to looking into Setrab or PWR oil coolers, selecting a size, making or spec'ing the line lengths and piecing together their own setup -which could be even better than off the shelf stuff.
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2013, 12:23 PM   #38
JonnyTrauma
Private
United_States
6
Rep
92
Posts

Drives: e92 m3 6mt
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

I've driven both DCT and 6MT on the track and prefer the DCT on the track without hesitation. If you're racing it's a no brainer because the advantage of DCT equates to real time in a lap (on upshifts) and allows you to be more precise with trail braking because you're don't have to heal/toe. My car is a DD and I love 6MT on the street but if i did it over again I would go the DCT route.
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2013, 12:50 PM   #39
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
205
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyTrauma View Post
I've driven both DCT and 6MT on the track and prefer the DCT on the track without hesitation. If you're racing it's a no brainer because the advantage of DCT equates to real time in a lap (on upshifts) and allows you to be more precise with trail braking because you're don't have to heal/toe. My car is a DD and I love 6MT on the street but if i did it over again I would go the DCT route.
I would probably tooo - but then I would be bored driving everyday. its hard to rev loud sometimes when the car is always in gear
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2013, 02:49 PM   #40
OC3
Havin' a blast!
OC3's Avatar
United_States
123
Rep
4,847
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
Were you talking about other DCT guys' with a DCT heat exchanger?

Seriously, GET A LARGER ENGINE OIL COOLER!!! -so you can track your car without overheating the oil temps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by track_warrior View Post
Its hilarious what some companies charge for products for expensive cars. I could probably fabricate my own DCT cooler for less than 500 bucks.

I cant stop laughing at the price of $1,930.00 for a transmission cooler. And the funniest part is that people still buy them.
I've considered set of larger heat exchangers (radiator, oil cooler, DCT cooler, power steering cooler, etc, did I miss anything else? lulz), but I'm just not all convinced that they're very effective. Cost, while laughably high, is secondary. Also, so far, I've stuck to not modify anything on my car other than the coilover & BBK that I currently have, I'm just not willing at this point to have shops take apart things in the engine bay, etc, to put those heat exchangers in. Compared to say S/C install, I know those things are relatively simple, but from what I've experienced so far at various so-called tuning shops that are around, I don't trust any of them.

Based on my little testing this past Saturday at Chuckwalla, on hot summer days, I'll just track by shifting less. I was amazed that the temp guage stayed at steady 255F when I shifted less, and was able to run 7~8 straight hot laps (which I wasn't able to since February of this year). Doing that got me slower lap times, but during hot summer months, nobody is setting any lap records anyways.
__________________
BRP 1:56 | CVR 2:01 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34

Last edited by OC3; 10-21-2013 at 03:02 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2013, 03:43 PM   #41
Billj747
Captain
Billj747's Avatar
United_States
162
Rep
658
Posts

Drives: Everything
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoFlo

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
I've considered set of larger heat exchangers (radiator, oil cooler, DCT cooler, power steering cooler, etc, did I miss anything else? lulz), but I'm just not all convinced that they're very effective. Cost, while laughably high, is secondary. Also, so far, I've stuck to not modify anything on my car other than the coilover & BBK that I currently have, I'm just not willing at this point to have shops take apart things in the engine bay, etc, to put those heat exchangers in. Compared to say S/C install, I know those things are relatively simple, but from what I've experienced so far at various so-called tuning shops that are around, I don't trust any of them.

Based on my little testing this past Saturday at Chuckwalla, on hot summer days, I'll just track by shifting less. I was amazed that the temp guage stayed at steady 255F when I shifted less, and was able to run 7~8 straight hot laps (which I wasn't able to since February of this year). Doing that got me slower lap times, but during hot summer months, nobody is setting any lap records anyways.
Seriously, fricken upgrade your engine oil cooler and you'll be so much happier. Not fun short-shifting and putting around...
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2013, 04:37 PM   #42
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
205
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
I've considered set of larger heat exchangers (radiator, oil cooler, DCT cooler, power steering cooler, etc, did I miss anything else? lulz), but I'm just not all convinced that they're very effective. Cost, while laughably high, is secondary. Also, so far, I've stuck to not modify anything on my car other than the coilover & BBK that I currently have, I'm just not willing at this point to have shops take apart things in the engine bay, etc, to put those heat exchangers in. Compared to say S/C install, I know those things are relatively simple, but from what I've experienced so far at various so-called tuning shops that are around, I don't trust any of them.

Based on my little testing this past Saturday at Chuckwalla, on hot summer days, I'll just track by shifting less. I was amazed that the temp guage stayed at steady 255F when I shifted less, and was able to run 7~8 straight hot laps (which I wasn't able to since February of this year). Doing that got me slower lap times, but during hot summer months, nobody is setting any lap records anyways.
Seriously, fricken upgrade your engine oil cooler and you'll be so much happier. Not fun short-shifting and putting around...
One thing in the manual is that you do have to short shift on certain sections of a track - or am i doing it wrong?!
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2013, 04:45 PM   #43
nullrouted
Studying...
nullrouted's Avatar
United_States
36
Rep
860
Posts

Drives: AW '13 E92 ZCP 6MT M3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Central Florida

iTrader: (0)

6MT is better than DCT... wait, wrong thread? d'oh!

I'll probably break down and buy a DCT M4... especially given all the love for it here at the track.
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2013, 06:06 PM   #44
OC3
Havin' a blast!
OC3's Avatar
United_States
123
Rep
4,847
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

^
__________________
BRP 1:56 | CVR 2:01 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:47 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST