Brake Poll..... Stock or Brembo 6pots?

[ace996]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

a multi piston caliper maygive you better brake feel.

.

Yep...I agree with you there.

Good luck at CalSpeedway and please let us know how things go. I'll be doing a new track here at the end of September and I'll report my findngs, too.
Be good,
TomK

[KINGLEH]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

very very true - usually because the passing car got a better exit speed out of the corner leading on to the straight with hard braking at the end of it .

knew u were gona say that....





ide say its equally important...

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by ace996

"Arcadian, I've fought countless times, yet I've never met an adversary who could offer me what we Spartans call "A Beautiful Death." I can only hope, with all the world's warriors gathered against us, there might be one down there who's up to the task."
Μολὼν λαβέ!!

long Live the 300!!!!!

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

... as far as "who needs brakes they just slow you down" its sorta T in C but its also close to a famous Quote by Jackie Stewert on why he was faster than many in his day. he used less brakes and there fore higher entry and midcorner speed.

I think I understand, now. What you are saying is the slow drivers use up their brakes faster and therefore, need the BBK.

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

I think I understand, now. What you are saying is the slow drivers use up their brakes faster and therefore, need the BBK.

really- when I was a beginner I warped lots of rotors and had more brake problems/

[FusionBlitzz]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPS

Yup, I admit, if you guys think a Brembo BBK is the way to go, I might benefit. That's assuming you bestow the pleasure on me of being the one to hook you up with a BBK.

The ONLY problem I have with the Brembo 380mm 6/4 BBK is that it won't fit inside most 18" wheels. HOWEVER...I've spent the past 3 days researching, emailing cross-sections (aka templates) of the Brembo BBk, and talking to the wheel manufacturers and distributors I deal with, in an effort to do ALL the legwork to find a solution to the 15" BBK/18" track wheel problem. I'm having some pretty good success, and eliminating some wheels that just won't work in 18s. For some, the Brembo BBK/wheel dilemma will be a deal-breaker. One wheel the definitely will NOT work is the stock 18s. If you have stock 18s on your E92 M3, you're going to have to buy the BBK AND wheels, so it will be quite expensive.

Bob

Do you know if the 6 pot BBK would clear 18" +22 TE37?

[Battle]

Originally Posted by FusionBlitzz

Do you know if the 6 pot BBK would clear 18" +22 TE37?

No it will only clear some 19". Including OEM 19".

[Bob@BPS]

Originally Posted by Arsenal

No it will only clear some 19". Including OEM 19".

There ARE a couple of 18" wheels that will clear the Brembo 380 kit on an E9X M3. I have my Brembo kit on order and should have it installed in the next 10-14 days. I know of 2 wheels that will definitely work. The TE37 is a maybe. Mackin says no, but I have measured and there is an outside chance an 18" TE37 will work. I have a set of 18X9.5 front 18X10.5 rear TE37s I used on my old E46 M3 for track/autocross. I created a template to measure the ID of the wheels. IF they clear, it will only be by a couple of millimeters. Let's keep our fingers crossed on the Volks. The TE37 is a great track wheel.

I recognized that the 18" track wheel question would arise when I found out Brembo was only doing a 380mm BBk for the E9X M3. There will be options, but the selection will be extremely limited.

I'll be announcing BBK/wheel packages once I'm done with my own installation and all the research has been done.

Bob

[ModBargains.com]

Originally Posted by KINGLEH

that other thread got me wondering just how many of you actually would take the stock over a better design...... like if it came that way from the factory....


so.. leaving every brake part on the car the same... other then the caliper... which would you take.. the stock single piston design... or a Brembo 6 pot up front and a 4 pot in the rear... similar to a 997...

I don't want to say that the more pistons there are the better. That's not always the case. You have to also consider the design in the whole kit itself. The way Brembo designed their brakes is miraculous. I've worked with them for a little while, and the things I learned made me realize what sort of research, technology, and development they put into their braking systems. It's not wonder why the Brembo BBKs are used in major racing competitions, and why they're the top sellers right now for us in the M3 community.

[Bob@BPS]

Hey guys,

Check out the pics of my new Brembo 6/4 380mm BBK in my mod journal here. I'll have pics on the car in the next couple of days.

Bob

[KINGLEH]

the poll finally started heading the right way... as Brembo has a clear lead...

those brakes are SIIIICK Bob!

[Radiation Joe]

Ok folks.

This board does not exist for the purpose of selling your crap. Stop spreading marketing hype about Brembos. Your opinion is worthless so long as what you are gushing over is something you sell.

There are a lot of younger guys (your market demographic) that will think what you are saying is informed. It isn't. All you are doing is taking advantage of their naivete. Of course, those same younger guys will be the ones who will vehemently disagree with me.

There is nothing wrong with Brembo brakes. They are a fine product when used correctly. But the plain simple truth is 95 percent of the kits you sell are unnecessary and probably screw up the brake bias. Which, of course, 95 percent of your customers won't notice.

[BRDHNTR]

I have had to jam hard on the brakes a couple times on the street and the car stops very well. I can't see where putting Brembos or other aftermarket brakes will make enough of a difference to justify their cost.

That said, my friend has a GT3 and he paid $8K for ceramic brakes and says that it is well worth it in performance. I guess the difference is that he used to race for Ferrari's prototype team at Le Mans and I have done 2 track days. One day it will make a difference in my life, just not today.

[Ron@Modbargains]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

Ok folks.

This board does not exist for the purpose of selling your crap. Stop spreading marketing hype about Brembos. Your opinion is worthless so long as what you are gushing over is something you sell.

There are a lot of younger guys (your market demographic) that will think what you are saying is informed. It isn't. All you are doing is taking advantage of their naivete. Of course, those same younger guys will be the ones who will vehemently disagree with me.

There is nothing wrong with Brembo brakes. They are a fine product when used correctly. But the plain simple truth is 95 percent of the kits you sell are unnecessary and probably screw up the brake bias. Which, of course, 95 percent of your customers won't notice.

It's not always about just selling a product, for us it's about properly educating the consumer on the real differences. Information thats why the forums are a great place.

We sell a great deal of brake products, some times pads / rotors/ lines / fluid to improve the potential of the OEM brake system in an economical way, other times it's a 6-piston monobloc brake system with race pads and fluid for a customer who is trying to improve his lap times or be competitive in time trials and time attack type events, and in other cases it is for the guy with 19" or 20" wheels who is doing it just for looks. With many different types of customers we do carry many different options. With that we do make it a point to be educated ourselves on the benefits and advantages from some companies as well as the hype and false promises made by others.

I will agree that a lot of the information seen on forums can be marketing hype, misinformation, rumors, and myths, but even your post is filled with some of that. As long as there are multiple people with different view points there will always be an argument on here. The way that we like to "win" the argument is by avoiding the hype and marketing speak, and strictly focus on what the customer is looking to achieve and what his past results were.

90% of the time we are upgrading the OEM brakes with better pads/lines/fluid.
The other 10% of the time we are dealing with people who's car setup and driving style is plain and simple, BEYOND the capabilities of the OEM calipers and discs. These guys do need, and will benefit, from a properly engineered BBK.

I agree that for simple daily driven street cars, it is not a modification of necessity and mostly done with the intention of creating bling. But then again, isn't that the difference between buying a 335i vs. 328i, or an M3 vs. 335i? All 3 cars can accomplish the same thing within the traffic laws. Why not throw a Toyota Camry or an Audi A4 into that equation?

The point of that example is that there is no right or wrong answer to this thread, and there's no point in arguing facts vs. opinions for 5 full pages. If someone wants to know the real difference, it is going to be dependent upon their own personal situation and needs, and we at Mod Bargains feel that we are well equipped to help you find a proper solution.

BTW, I voted for the BBK simply because it said "if it came that way from the factory" which made me believe that cost was not an issue. Knowing everything that I do, I cannot think of a single benefit outside of cost where an opposed piston caliper does not come out on top."

[Radiation Joe]

I appreciate your calm response to an inflammatory post. Good luck with your entire line.
.

[Bob@BPS]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

I appreciate your calm response to an inflammatory post. Good luck with your entire line.
.

Joe,

I spent the better part of an hour last night preparing a response to your post before deciding to delete it and saying nothing, because I was pissed. Truth is I love having Bimmer Performance Store. Why do I love it? Because I enjoy modding my own car and getting to male bond with guys while helping them make informed decisions. I spend as much time here as a fellow enthusiast as I do as a sponsor. I OWN an E92 M3. I STILL own an E46 M3 that had a great AP Racing BBK. The E46 M3 is now back to stock and the stock brakes suck compared to what I was used to. I now have a Brembo BBK, and I really believe it is the best engineered brand of brakes available. Apparently, BMW (on the 135i), Porsche & Ferrari, among others, agree. I am completely addicted to the feel a big brake kit gives to any car. It inspires confidence and I personally feel safer in a car with superior stopping power. Not just better than average, not just good enough for what others think are my needs, but SUPERIOR stopping power. I feel like I have a better chance of getting out of a problem situation in a car that handles and stops to it's fullest potential.

Regarding forums needing sponsors to be here to sell their products and pay the sponsorship fees...do I really need to say anything?

If you decide you'd like a Brembo BBK when you get your new E90 M3, I'd love the opportunity to earn your business. Best of luck with your new M

Bob

[watrob]

Originally Posted by FranklinDelanoBluth

All things being equal I'd like a multi piston design if it outperformed the current setup for the same price.

1 pot, 4 pot, 6 pot, the thing is the brakes on the M3 are major talking point and I don't really care if a 6 pot does or does not out perform the 1 pot M3 brake or not, Bmw could have done better. Ita a matter of having a choice.

Whats a couple of hundred dollars at production time, M3 owners who track there cars would be happier if you had 6 pot brakes because you would have larger choice of pads at a cheaper cost available to you.

Owner who wanted red brakes would be happy. They say BMW does watch what members do and say on this forum, if the demand is there for an option of upgraded brakes they may take notice. I don't think BMW are going to change the brakes but they may bring out a brake upgrade, they have for the 1 series.

What I would like to see is at order time is to be able to have a choice on whether the calipers on the M3 are Black, Red or Yellow, and an option of a brake upgrade for track work or if you simply want to use it for street use so be it.

Instead you have to go and buy after market brakes because:-

1. Other cars have 6 potter's and you don't like to be out done.
2. You want Red ones.
3. You want to track your car and be able to buy reasonable priced pads and
have the same brakes as other sports cars that you compete against.

That's BS, that's poor PR & marketing on BMW behalf, it maybe fine on a standard 3 series but not for a M3. In the States you might be happy about the brake situation because your M3 only costs $70k but in Australia the M3 costs optioned up is over $200k, that's nearly 3 times more and I have to go and buy after market brakes, it leaves a bad taste in ones mouth.

Now you can say well don't buy a M3 but I like BMW's but every other $200k sports car here has either 6 pot brakes or an option to put them on (actually there are $50k cars here with 6 pot brakes) and that's why its a disgrace.

At $70k in the States it may not be a disgrace to you but lets see you pull your cheque book out here and see if that changes your mind. At $200k there should be an option at least.

[KINGLEH]

ok.. tracked my car today and yesterday....

the stock brakes are DEFINITELY.... NOT... good enough....


end of story.....

[lucid]

Originally Posted by KINGLEH

ok.. tracked my car today and yesterday....

the stock brakes are DEFIANTLY.... NOT... good enough....


end of story.....

Did you change the pads? Stock pads are no good on the track.

[KINGLEH]

nope... this was first round... stock brakes.. what they are from the factory.. def not up to the job....

i will now do pads. fluid and ducting....

[Bob@BPS]

Originally Posted by watrob

...

Now you can say well don't buy a M3 but I like BMW's but every other $200k sports car here has either 6 pot brakes or an option to put them on (actually there are $50k cars here with 6 pot brakes) and that's why its a disgrace.

At $70k in the States it may not be a disgrace to you but lets see you pull your cheque book out here and see if that changes your mind. At $200k there should be an option at least.

Don't you find it ironic that the 135, at about $30K less than an E9X M3, comes with Brembo calipers stock from the factory???


As a retailer, I'm glad we have upgrades to sell, but as a fellow enthusiast and consumer, I have to assume it was just ONE of the decisions BMW made to keep the price from being $80K - $90K - $100K. By not coming with a BBK, I guess that gives us all the advantage of deciding whether we want a BBK at all. It also gives us the opportunity to make decisions about brand and color, so we can individualize our cars. If they came with BBKs from the factory, we would all look the same.

Bob

[rzm3]

All we need here is a non-partisan, systematic side-by-side comparison with a stock M3 and one w/ BBK. I would love to volunteer my car for it if anyone wants to conduct such a test.