Is the S5 a threat to the new M3?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by gbb357

I read somewhere that the base price is $75k, but that's not confirmed so don't quote me on it.

Every other magazine so far estimates a base price between $57-$62,000 for the Coupe, less for the Sedan. Add $10,000 for the Convertible, perhaps...

[gbb357]

Here's an estimate from edbmw.
http://www.edbmw.com/blog/2007/04/30...0000-to-65000/

And here's another one from leftlane news.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-m3-t...-to-65000.html

It seems like the mark up is going to be anywhere from 20% to 30% up in comparison to UK's base price. At first i was guessing it'll be around the same price as the RS4 when it first came out which was $66k. But that was back a couple of years ago, so i figured it'll be more. I guess not.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by gbb357

Here's an estimate from edbmw.
http://www.edbmw.com/blog/2007/04/30...0000-to-65000/

And here's another one from leftlane news.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-m3-t...-to-65000.html

It seems like the mark up is going to be anywhere from 20% to 30% up in comparison to UK's base price. At first i was guessing it'll be around the same price as the RS4 when it first came out which was $66k. But that was back a couple of years ago, so i figured it'll be more. I guess not.

Those are the exact same reviews...

[Keto]

Originally Posted by gbb357

Here's an estimate from edbmw.
http://www.edbmw.com/blog/2007/04/30...0000-to-65000/

And here's another one from leftlane news.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-m3-t...-to-65000.html

It seems like the mark up is going to be anywhere from 20% to 30% up in comparison to UK's base price. At first i was guessing it'll be around the same price as the RS4 when it first came out which was $66k. But that was back a couple of years ago, so i figured it'll be more. I guess not.

RS4 (US spec) has few options, thus a higher base. As we all know, BMW prefers to get the base low but add zillions in options. I think the "loaded" configurations will be comparable.

[gbb357]

Originally Posted by Technic

Those are the exact same reviews...

That's why i said "i stand corrected", i was wrong.

[devo]

Originally Posted by footie

The fact that it's rarer should play to it's favour and mean it will hold more of it's value, so lets say you will get that $1300 back.

If history is an indicator of Audi's residuals, I think not. I don't believe that Audis' poor residuals in the states is deserved, but they have yet to dig themselves out of that hole. I wish Audis' had better residuals, as I may be more tempted to buy one, but I have not found that to be.

The RS4 is likely even more rare, but I don't see any strength in their resale values.

As far as getting back the $1,300 ggt, I also, think not. That money is gone once spent. Sure, one could argue that a new S5 has ggt when a used one doesn't, but typically any excise tax -or otherwise one time surcharge- once paid is long gone. There may be a very slight return on resale, but I really doubt it.

[footie]

Differing markets seem to producing differing results, in the UK performance Audis (S and RS models) generally hold their value better than their M and AMG rivals. Though over the short term the difference isn't really there between the M and the S/RS, but are time goes on the quantity difference between the number of M cars and the S/RS cars lead to a glut of M cars which from a customer's point of view means your choice is a plenty compared to the handful of S/RS cars which leads to a more competitive price on M3 etc as each seller is fighting for a limited amount of customers.

[marwan]

S5 got owned by a 335:

so no, the S5 doesn't stand a change against the M3....maybe the RS5 would have a better chance.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by marwan

S5 got owned by a 335:

so no, the S5 doesn't stand a change against the M3....maybe the RS5 would have a better chance.

Interesting definition of owned you have...

[hks786]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Interesting definition of owned you have...

I know.

[footie]

In a contest where the gap is only 0.06s I think your definition of owned needs a re-think. In this close of a race the win could have went either way, but in any case that isn't really the point of why the S5 is better than the 335i, it's the other stuff that it does better, like the interior, the exterior, the fact that it's more rare and more special, it's got a V8 sound track. I think you have got my drift, the 335i is a good car, but the gap between it and the S5 is as vast as the one between the S5 and the M3.

Sorry.

[UltimateBMW]

To be honest, I don't really think the interior is that much superior. It is definitely more cluttered with buttons and input devices, but that doesn't mean better in my opinion. Plus, some poeple were impressed with the buttons around the shift knob. Having a radio vol control right there was handy in their opinion but really if your hand is on top of the knob the distance from naught to the radio knob is probably pretty similar to the vertical distance down to the 2nd redundant dial by the shifter. So I don't really see all the hype about it, maybe if the vol control was cleverly hidden on the shifter somehow but as it is now its just more clutter.

If you want gadget-heavy interiors there are plenty of things you can add on to any car to make it more cockpit-esque.

As for any difference in availability and rarity, well that is just a silly comparison. The 335i has been out on the market for quite a while now, and if the hype for the new S5 is any indication (which it is!) then the S5 will be just as common if not more so. The comparisons are sound if you look at the line-up of both BMW and Audi. 328i - A5, 335i - S5, M3 - RS4 Any MSRP difference from that is simply meaning a cheaper car, and a credit to the manufacturer (BMW).

[gbb357]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

To be honest, I don't really think the interior is that much superior. It is definitely more cluttered with buttons and input devices, but that doesn't mean better in my opinion. Plus, some poeple were impressed with the buttons around the shift knob. Having a radio vol control right there was handy in their opinion but really if your hand is on top of the knob the distance from naught to the radio knob is probably pretty similar to the vertical distance down to the 2nd redundant dial by the shifter. So I don't really see all the hype about it, maybe if the vol control was cleverly hidden on the shifter somehow but as it is now its just more clutter.

If you want gadget-heavy interiors there are plenty of things you can add on to any car to make it more cockpit-esque.

As for any difference in availability and rarity, well that is just a silly comparison. The 335i has been out on the market for quite a while now, and if the hype for the new S5 is any indication (which it is!) then the S5 will be just as common if not more so. The comparisons are sound if you look at the line-up of both BMW and Audi. 328i - A5, 335i - S5, M3 - RS4 Any MSRP difference from that is simply meaning a cheaper car, and a credit to the manufacturer (BMW).

It will be less common and more rare than the 335i for the fact that it is a limited edition model. It's just like the AMG from Mercedes and M from BMW, S and RS models are by Audi's quattro GmbH division.

[gbb357]

Now if the price is a lot closer, around $11k to $15k, this might actually be even more of a threat now than it was when i thought it was $20k more. As somebody pointed out, people that are shopping to spend around $75k probably will probably not look at a $50k car. But customers that are going to spend around $60k might just take a peek at a lesser priced car. Just like some potential S5 buyers might just take a look at the 335i instead which is about $9k cheaper from base price.

[marwan]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Interesting definition of owned you have...

really? how so?

[footie]

UltimateBMW,

Mate I respect your opinion, you don't rate the S5 interior better and dislike the center console. I don't have a problem with that one, that's is the reason why there are different cars for different people. The rarity thing is a fact about the S5, like the RS model all S models are much less than their BMW equivalent so in a way more people choose BMWs than Audis but the facts are that BMW regardless of the market they offer discounts to sell their cars and price is what sells cars, they are after world domination and total sales count.

gbb357,

Sorry mate but you are wrong, it's Audi which build S models. QuattroGmbH only make RS models.

Marwan,

Explain how the 335i owned the S5 with a 0.06s win, that is the silliest statement among silly statements. That race could have went either way and Miss Henderson isn't a professional driver in the class of say the 'Stig' or someone like and she can't lap as consistently as him.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by marwan

really? how so?

Wow, you really are that confused.

1. See the post above by footie.
2. Urbandictionary.com (definition #6). Owned: To defeat in a spectacular way or fashion.

[marwan]

very funny! ;0 ....fine. The 335 raped the S5. BETTER?

[hks786]

Originally Posted by marwan

very funny! ;0 ....fine. The 335 raped the S5. BETTER?

Just as stupid. Sorry to say but that race could have went either way, how on earth did the 335 rape it?

[footie]

Originally Posted by marwan

very funny! ;0 ....fine. The 335 raped the S5. BETTER?

I would like to see that as it does have a beautiful body (S5) don't you think.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by footie

UltimateBMW,

Mate I respect your opinion, you don't rate the S5 interior better and dislike the center console. I don't have a problem with that one, that's is the reason why there are different cars for different people. The rarity thing is a fact about the S5, like the RS model all S models are much less than their BMW equivalent so in a way more people choose BMWs than Audis but the facts are that BMW regardless of the market they offer discounts to sell their cars and price is what sells cars, they are after world domination and total sales count.

Well, I can't really argue against that. I wonder what a BMW ruled world would look like...

As for the S and RS models being limited production, I always kind of figured if there was enough demand Audi would of put out more. I never knew they were purposely limited production cars. Makes sense though. My concept of the RS4 is a bit askew though. A few years back, around the time that my interest really began to spark in BMWs and such, I remember that the S4 was the main competitor to the M3 and there was no RS model for the 'A4' chassis. When the RS4 came along, and Audi dropped the engine selection to only 1, that meant in my mind that the 'S' class designation dropped down a peg in prestige to make room for the RS4.

On a side note, while I haven't followed the iterations of the A4 class in detail it seems like Audi gives it a face lift a lot more often than BMW's 7 year bout. I think there have been around 3 different A4 looks during the e46 3 series run. It would probably help more if I knew the Audi factory code for each model type, but I never bothered to look it up. Maybe someone can clearify some of my confusion or misconception with the A4's recent (10 year) history.

[footie]

The (B5 A4) finished production in I think 2002 at which point the new model (B6 A4) came out and run for another 3 years until it received it's face-lift (B7 A4) in 2005 and is now being replaced by a whole new model (B8 A4) in 2008. Audi seem to replace their models every 6 years based on the above.

I agree that the (B6/7) S4 and the E46 M3 where competitors but it's either Audi or BMW I don't know which has changed things to make the RS4 and M3 now competitor. I reckon it must be Audi because the M3 came out first and matched the RS4 on power and then the S5 came out and instead of increasing it's power to shadow the M3 as it did in the past it only slightly improved it's power over the S4 so distancing it from the M3 and moving it closer to the 335i.