Alignment pins: to pull or not to pull

[BigRussia]

Im about to install Swift springs on my ZCP E92 M3's factory EDC shocks, and considering removing the alignment pins. I had my car aligned back in August and the front camber specs are -1.6 left and -1.3 right (completely stock ZCP suspension). The car also has a very slight right drift that the alignment guys weren't able to correct saying the front camber is not adjustable.

My M3 is my only car but I don't have a daily commute so I'm not that concerned about front tire wear and would like having better turn in since I plan to start doing HPDE. So should I pull the pins or would I possibly end up with too much negative front camber for a street car? Im also assuming the slight drop from the Swift springs would also add some neg camber? Thanks

[macdude357]

If you are going to be doing HPDE and are already messing with the suspension, just get camber plates. They'll pay for themselves in fewer tire purchases. That alone is worth it. It will also give you a ton more grip in the front and make turn in much better too.

[pbonsalb]

Pull the pins. Its easy. You wont end up with too much negative camber even with lowering springs. I think I have -1.6 with pulled pins and the mild H&R springs. Never had any excess inside tire wear.

[cenix]

Pair your springs with camber plates since the suspension is already coming out, as mentioned. Pull the pins, obviously, too, and get a nice alignment and sticky tires. Big smiles after.

[BigRussia]

Originally Posted by macdude357

If you are going to be doing HPDE and are already messing with the suspension, just get camber plates. They'll pay for themselves in fewer tire purchases. That alone is worth it. It will also give you a ton more grip in the front and make turn in much better too.

Originally Posted by cenix

Pair your springs with camber plates since the suspension is already coming out, as mentioned. Pull the pins, obviously, too, and get a nice alignment and sticky tires. Big smiles after.

Yes Ive been considering picking up a pair of used camber plates...my only concern is that they add to the ride height. The swift springs drop is already going to be very minimal since my car is ZCP with the 10mm factory drop, I'm only getting another 15mm with the springs. Do the camber plates add to the ride height or make no difference?

[PandaM3]

Originally Posted by BigRussia

Yes Ive been considering picking up a pair of used camber plates...my only concern is that they add to the ride height. The swift springs drop is already going to be very minimal since my car is ZCP with the 10mm factory drop, I'm only getting another 15mm with the springs. Do the camber plates add to the ride height or make no difference?

Pull the pins for now.

Get camber plates when you decide to get coilovers in the future. (Also getting camber plates now may not be the right size for coilovers in the future)

[Datka]

+1 on camber plates. Negative camber -2.8F is perfect for our cars.
You can change camber yourself before and after your events.

[BigRussia]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

Pull the pins for now.

Get camber plates when you decide to get coilovers in the future. (Also getting camber plates now may not be the right size for coilovers in the future)

Yeah this is what I may do since I havent even done one HPDE yet so I dont even know if its something Ill be doing regularly. Also I'm just installing lowering springs on stock dampers, so getting camber plates now seems a little too much especially since they cost more than the springs themselves. If it start tracking the car then I do see myself ditching the stock EDC dampers and going full coilovers and getting camber plates at the same time.


If I pull the pins how much more negative camber will I gain atop of my current camber? Currently -1.6 left and -1.3 right

And do the camber plates reduce/negate the drop of the lowering springs?

[Richbot]

Pins are worth about .4 degrees

[macdude357]

Originally Posted by BigRussia

Yes Ive been considering picking up a pair of used camber plates...my only concern is that they add to the ride height. The swift springs drop is already going to be very minimal since my car is ZCP with the 10mm factory drop, I'm only getting another 15mm with the springs. Do the camber plates add to the ride height or make no difference?

Camber plates shouldn't affect ride height. I saw no difference in ride height when I installed Vorshlag plates on stock EDC suspension.

[Redd]

Pull the pins if you track. Don't if you don't track.

I pulled the pins and got -2 degrees camber. This resulted in excessive inside edge wear during daily driving (Mich PSS). I readjusted to -1.5 and only plan to run more -ve camber for track.

[BigRussia]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Pins are worth about .4 degrees

Originally Posted by macdude357

Camber plates shouldn't affect ride height. I saw no difference in ride height when I installed Vorshlag plates on stock EDC suspension.

Originally Posted by Redd

Pull the pins if you track. Don't if you don't track.

I pulled the pins and got -2 degrees camber. This resulted in excessive inside edge wear during daily driving (Mich PSS). I readjusted to -1.5 and only plan to run more -ve camber for track.

Thanks everyone for the info and advice! Seems like I have a decision to make before starting the spring install. I'm already at -1.6/-1.3 so I might end up over -2 on the left wheel with the pins pulled. I might just hold off and get the camber plates in the future to avoid the headache.

[Nihilation]

FYI I pulled the pins and have Swift Spec R springs. I'm at -1.8 front camber. That's perfectly fine for a street car and while not optimal, isn't the worst for track use.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by BigRussia

Im about to install Swift springs on my ZCP E92 M3's factory EDC shocks, and considering removing the alignment pins. I had my car aligned back in August and the front camber specs are -1.6 left and -1.3 right (completely stock ZCP suspension). The car also has a very slight right drift that the alignment guys weren't able to correct saying the front camber is not adjustable.

My M3 is my only car but I don't have a daily commute so I'm not that concerned about front tire wear and would like having better turn in since I plan to start doing HPDE. So should I pull the pins or would I possibly end up with too much negative front camber for a street car? Im also assuming the slight drop from the Swift springs would also add some neg camber? Thanks

Pulling the pin will not give you excessive negative camber and should just be enough to square up the car.

Swift springs installed will usually give you near some negative camber just from the car being lower.

[jeffkukuruda]

I have mine pulled on stock suspension.

If I were you, I'd definitely pull them, if nothing else when you get the car aligned you can use the adjustment to make the camber even on both sides, just because the pins are removed, you aren't forced to max the camber, although I would because I think you'll still barely get to -2.0. If you set your toe to 0.0 or close to it, you will not see excessive inside tire wear.

Cheers,
Jeff

[BigRussia]

Originally Posted by Nihilation

FYI I pulled the pins and have Swift Spec R springs. I'm at -1.8 front camber. That's perfectly fine for a street car and while not optimal, isn't the worst for track use.

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

Pulling the pin will not give you excessive negative camber and should just be enough to square up the car.

Swift springs installed will usually give you near some negative camber just from the car being lower.

Originally Posted by jeffkukuruda

I have mine pulled on stock suspension.

If I were you, I'd definitely pull them, if nothing else when you get the car aligned you can use the adjustment to make the camber even on both sides, just because the pins are removed, you aren't forced to max the camber, although I would because I think you'll still barely get to -2.0. If you set your toe to 0.0 or close to it, you will not see excessive inside tire wear.

Cheers,
Jeff

Ok I am reconsidering pulling them, but my front camber is already -1.6 left and -1.3 right. I fear my left camber will go beyond -2.0 with the pins pulled and the swift springs. As for alignment the shops Ive been to all say they cant do anything about the front camber because it's non adjustable and that I would have to get adjustable camber plates for them to be able to do anything with it.

[macdude357]

Why don't you go to the track first before doing anything. Then, if you like it and want to go back, you can do the Swift Springs and camber plates. If you don't like it, do the Swift Springs and optionally pull the pins.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by BigRussia

As for alignment the shops Ive been to all say they cant do anything about the front camber because it's non adjustable and that I would have to get adjustable camber plates for them to be able to do anything with it.

Nope. With the pins pulled, there is some leeway to move the strut top mounts around a bit for a bit of camber adjustment.

[FogCityM3]

Would be hard pressed to say that getting -.3-.5 more neg camber is something you would be able to feel by pulling the pins. You start feeling a difference once you subtract at least another -1 and the chassis is very happy at -2.8-3.0. I keep mine there for daily driving as well. Also you want both fronts to have the same negative camber..much easier to achieve with camber plates.

[burnurass]

A little late to the party, but anytime you adjust camber, it directly affects your toe setting. When you add negative camber, you make the toe adjustment move OUT. This is why you possibly could get some "camber" wear when it's actually a bad toe alignment. It's a small amount of negative camber to be honest.