2011 ZCP M3 clicking noise

[kouhii]

Originally Posted by KJM3

When I bought the car it was 90 degrees every day for a week and I never heard a noise. Its a lot of things here, but cool in the summer/fall it isnt It was 80 degrees today..

I just took it for a ride, did a couple 0-100 blasts, took it above 5500rpm for the first time, to 6500rpm at maybe 3/4 throttle. Drove it on some winding roads for about 20 miles, backed it in the garage and let it idle for 10 minutes. Except for some slight valvetrain noise which I expect not a click or tap AC on or off.

Like I said, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I have been around racing for over 30 years from Formula Atlantic cars to Blown Alcohol funny cars and have thrown my share of connecting rods out the side of 1000+ horsepower engines. I have done my own engine machine work and built complete 8-9 second streetable drag cars in my little garage along with restoring a bunch of classic imports. I dont see an issue with it right now, and if there is I'm not worried about it where I'm going to sit there and TRY to make it make noise. No doubt if my car sounded like the OPs I would e a little more concerned, especially if it changed with RPM.

I'm certainly not going to let BMW tear apart a brand new 70K car guessing what it is and I'm certainly not going to try to fix it myself, this is a daily driver and not a 'hobby' car, I have several of those already. If it blows up at 40,000 miles then they can put a new engine in it under warranty, if it turns out its a real issue on these and they come up with a legit fix then I'll let them give it a try. In the meantime I'm just going to enjoy the car and have some fun with it..

hi KJM3,

Calm down man. I am stating the main bearing issue as I see it. I don't need to know about your credentials or your history. I now kind of see where BMW drivers get their reputations from no offense. I am here to state what I see not here to get into this bullshit debate of whether it's normal or not.

As far as I know all technologies are evolving very rapidly so the engines of today might have the basics of the past but with a twist of technological advancement that can cause many unforeseen problems.

I did not know when the ticking for my car occurred but I remembered clearly it did not happen when I first bought the car. So when the clicking noise started to happen and was worse in 90F+ weather I could not stand it no more. At one point all I could hear were ticking noise not the sweet sounding V8 at idle and that was when I decided it must be fixed!

[KJM3]

Originally Posted by kouhii

hi KJM3,

Calm down man. I am stating the main bearing issue as I see it. I don't need to know about your credentials or your history. I now kind of see where BMW drivers get their reputations from no offense. I am here to state what I see not here to get into this bullshit debate of whether it's normal or not.

As far as I know all technologies are evolving very rapidly so the engines of today might have the basics of the past but with a twist of technological advancement that can cause many unforeseen problems.

I did not know when the ticking for my car occurred but I remembered clearly it did not happen when I first bought the car. So when the clicking noise started to happen and was worse in 90F+ weather I could not stand it no more. At one point all I could hear were ticking noise not the sweet sounding V8 at idle and that was when I decided it must be fixed!

I'm very calm, but I'm also old and grumpy, just stay off my lawn and everything is cool

This is my first BMW in a while so I am not a 'typical BMW driver,' just trying something different. But I do have quite a bit of experience with cars overall, water cooled V8 engines are basically all the same when it comes to bottom ends, there are new processes out there but plain bearings are plain bearings and oil pressure (and oil film) is oil pressure. Unfortunately these cars are the proverbial 10lbs of sh** in a 5lb bag under the hood and its not easy to pinpoint noises like a 62 chevy thats for sure.

I'm not going to overreact to a small clicking noise as a main bearing issue. The only car that sounds bad to me was the OP's car, but that doesnt sound like a main bearing problem, unless they are bad enough where the oil pressure is low. But in BMW's wisdom there is no easy way to tell what the oil pressure is, or water temp either, which is a bit odd to me for a performance car.

I'm not saying it isnt a main bearing issue either, its hard to tell with youtube videos whats going on and some of the noises may be completely unrelated and people tend to panic when they hear something and focus on it. Just like the GM LS1 engine piston slap that everyone made a big deal about and those same engines have over 100K on them and run fine, or the 'hemi tick' that my 2010 Dodge pickup has, that thing sounds like its going to explode sometimes but its still hanging in there.

Its a mechanical object and it can be fixed, with vanos, timing chains, 4 valves per cylinder etc there is a lot of things that can make noise. The bad part is 99% of the people who own these arent going to be tearing the engine apart to find out what it is so you have to rely on what a dealer says, and usually there isnt very good communication between the tech, SA and customer so who knows. Mine isnt that loud, I have to listen for ir, even though the video seems pretty loud. Time will tell if it gets louder and if it does I'll start complaining right here

[M3Pilot09]

Ok here is an update on my car. Picked it up last Friday and the annoying engine clicking was gone. Then it came back yesterday, unbelievable! The dealer wants me to drop it off again.

[KJM3]

Originally Posted by M3Pilot09

Ok here is an update on my car. Picked it up last Friday and the annoying engine clicking was gone. Then it came back yesterday, unbelievable! The dealer wants me to drop it off again.

What exactly have they done on your car so far?

It should say on the repair order.

[ES_TRADER]

Originally Posted by M3Pilot09

Ok here is an update on my car. Picked it up last Friday and the annoying engine clicking was gone. Then it came back yesterday, unbelievable! The dealer wants me to drop it off again.

someone needs to be shot for this...all i can say...frustrates me to even read these and i dont even have the car here yet...

[Lodaka]

Originally Posted by KJM3

What exactly have they done on your car so far?

It should say on the repair order.

Yea, I would be interested in this as well. I also received a call just now told that my car may be ready tomorrow. I will post an udpate on this as well. Clearly, that the car won't have the noise initially is no reason to celebrate. I wil keep my emotions in check...

[alefcole]

Its simple, if you have an intermittent ticking noise kind of hard to hear then its completely NORMAL car behavior. If you have a daily ticking noise easy to replicate you are F--ked.

[powertrip]

So injector ticking and valvetrain noise aren't normal because they're not intermittent??

Originally Posted by alefcole

Its simple, if you have an intermittent ticking noise kind of hard to hear then its completely NORMAL car behavior. If you have a daily ticking noise easy to replicate you are F--ked.

[satinghostrider]

Originally Posted by M3Pilot09

Ok here is an update on my car. Picked it up last Friday and the annoying engine clicking was gone. Then it came back yesterday, unbelievable! The dealer wants me to drop it off again.

Wow fricking unbelievable!
Could be the main bearings then. I am sorry.
I think BMW is playing this one up for sure. They cannot afford to have another recall. Its going to really look bad on them. I am shocked that the 2011's are having this one even now. The whole thing appears to be lack of oil pressure sufficient to lube the bearings. If they have revised the bearings and it is still happening, I say its the oil pump to blame.

[M3Pilot09]

I was told that they dropped the subframe, removed the oilpan and retourqed the bolts to different specs than when the car was built. The shop foreman could not tell me if they made them tighter or looser. It was a very long process and the SA said it was a lot of work. Dropping it off in the morning so they can try and guess whats wrong and how to fix it. There is a problem for sure on the 2011's in my opinion. I have read about 6 other people alone on this board who have experienced the same issue. I will give an update when I hear something.

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

The whole thing appears to be lack of oil pressure sufficient to lube the bearings. If they have revised the bearings and it is still happening, I say its the oil pump to blame.

Could be, but can you really blame the pump for not pumping honey? That's what it's basically doing in winter conditions . TWS is too damn thick to pump AND lubricate bearings when cold (the colder it is, the worse it gets) IMO. And this could be happening for a minute or two EVERY freaking cold start. BMW went to the other extreme IMO. They should have spec'ed 5/40, just like the equally revvy Lamborghinis, Ferraris, etc. Or at least 5/60. Those mentioned also recommend 0/40 for winter and 10/60 for the track. Doesn't make any sense to use TWS if car will be driven normally in the middle of a Colorado winter. My extractor was having a hard time extracting the oil at 70ºF; can't imagine what it's like at freezing temperatures. That's why our engines are so loud at start up when colder; engine struggles to run the oil pump.

I'm not saying thick oil is the only cause of bearing failure as only a few engines are affected, but I'd say it's a factor when parts are marginal. And definitely causes more wear in the long run than engines running more winter friendly multigrade oils. Curious to hear what excuse BMW comes up with... if ever.

[KJM3]

Originally Posted by M3Pilot09

I was told that they dropped the subframe, removed the oilpan and retourqed the bolts to different specs than when the car was built. The shop foreman could not tell me if they made them tighter or looser. It was a very long process and the SA said it was a lot of work. Dropping it off in the morning so they can try and guess whats wrong and how to fix it. There is a problem for sure on the 2011's in my opinion. I have read about 6 other people alone on this board who have experienced the same issue. I will give an update when I hear something.

First off I feel bad for you, no bigger nightmare than not being able to get your new 70K car fixed. IMO every time they tear into the engine it is just more of a possibility of screwing something else up. I'm surprised they just dont replace the engine at this point instead of farting around with the bottom end on a new 70K car.

I have a random clicking like I posted in my video, but thats nothing like yours has, they do come from the same area but 90% if all engine noises in cars come from the wheelwells it seems, its the least shrouded place. I dont hear it all when I'm driving, window down next to a wall or cars, I know exactly what you are talking about there, have heard it many times on other cars. I did hear it again idling for 10 minutes at a drive through yesterday but by the time I went back home it was gone.

Do you have a manual trans, ever do a 'money shift' by mistake?

I have read on other forums where people had valve spring and VANOS problems as well that made similar noises to yours. Although it sounds like its coming from the lower end you can never be too sure where noises are coming from. Lot of stuff hung off the front of the crank on these turning around also. I'm sure oil pressure is the first thing they would look at.

As far as the thick oil that really depends on engine clearances, size of the galleys and the pumps ability to handle it. Cold starts could be a killer if the TWS thickens up enough but what about people who's car never started below 50 degrees. I cant say how many times mine was started below 50* since July of 2010 when it was made, but I bet it wasnt a lot with 4 miles on it when I picked it up.

I'm still thinking there are two different issues in this thread. Does anyone from BMW NA look through this forum or does anyone know someone that can forward this thread to a real engineer at BMW? Stuff like this on popular forums can hurt sales and usually they have someone browsing around looking for it. I still havent come across a real explanation about the 'bad' main bearings in '08. Just a lot of forum posts and speculation, anyone have the actual service bulletin or official explanation from BMW?

Here is a nice pic of the all the parts in the engine, a lot of them can make noise when its running. Not an easy thing to guess at..

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2008-...8/full/#191482

[M3Pilot09]

It get's better, now my car made a very loud "clunk" noise. This is on top of the random clicking issue. Whats the deal??? I can say this my 2008 M3 did not make these noises.

[Lodaka]

Originally Posted by M3Pilot09

It get's better, now my car made a very loud "clunk" noise. This is on top of the random clicking issue. Whats the deal??? I can say this my 2008 M3 did not make these noises.

Umm, what the hell. Did they screw up putting the parts together? When does the clunk noise happen and under what condition?

[M3Pilot09]

"clunk" happened last night driving down the street in 2nd gear. all of the sudden "CLUNK" this caught me off guard for sure. They had my car for a week so not sure how they could have not put it back together properly. Kinda funny, I was told the dealer did not have all the tools to do the job and thats why it took so long.

[jdgamble]

So my dealer opened a PUMA case with BMW today... The shop foreman acknowledged there's an issue. Kinda good news.

[jimm3]

I'm also having the same clicking sound on my 2010. Clicking only happens when the car is warmed up. Eff.

[Lodaka]

So I got my car back yesterday. And the result of all that work is... it's still there. As far as I can tell, there is no change. They said that they did a test drive, but no one checked to see whether the probelm has been resolved? What's the point of test drive, a joy ride? I am a reasonable guy but I don't quite understand.

I left a vm with the service manager and will speak to him when I hear back. When I get a call back, I am going to ask them to check to see whether it could be a main bearing issue. Ugh.

[M3Pilot09]

Lodaka that sucks about your car. Mine as well, the noise has returned and now it makes a "clunk" I am going for a different BMW in the lineup, bye bye M3

[MasterDank]

Originally Posted by M3Pilot09

Lodaka that sucks about your car. Mine as well, the noise has returned and now it makes a "clunk" I am going for a different BMW in the lineup, bye bye M3

Sorry to hear about the new noise, Hope everything works out for the best.


My car is still at the shop, tomorrow will make two weeks. It is suppose to be ready for pick up tomorrow but it was also suppose to be ready last wednesday but the SM never called me till friday afternoon to tell me it should be ready by the end of the day..... But it sounds like they will be keeping it for a bit longer seeing as the noise is probably still there.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Good summary. To be very honest, I think alot of guys out there who have listened to their cars feel something is wrong because there is a certain kinda of noise. The S65 is not a quiet engine by any means.

Having said that, I will post a tips of how it sounds like. From here, you will have a guesstimate if you are affected by this main bearing saga. This was taken off a post by a forummer called "kouhii" who had an 09 and had main bearing failure.

Check to see if you have this.
-Car only ticks when engine is warm (170F or higher oil temp)
-Ticking frequency changes with engine speed
-You can hear it tick faster between 1.5k and 3k rpm
-You can hear it while in highest gear (6th or 7th) and driving at 25mph on a quiet road

If these are your symptoms check the main bearings.

Here's some videoes too. Last video is clearest in terms of how it should sound like. Yikes!

[
Hope this comes as some form of guidance to those who wants to cross check if they are having main bearing issues. Its hard to identify these noises if you hardly drive with your windows down. I am pretty sensitive on how my car should sound and feel. So to others, this might sound normal but its not.

Have a good day lads...

In the third video, are you referring to the creaking/cracking sound that you hear intermittently, or to the engine tone? Because the engine itself sounds normal and just like mine, which I hope isn't a bad thing!

[satinghostrider]

Originally Posted by pman10

In the third video, are you referring to the creaking/cracking sound that you hear intermittently, or to the engine tone? Because the engine itself sounds normal and just like mine, which I hope isn't a bad thing!

Its the intermittent cracking/creaking sound. If you don't have this. probably yours is absolutely fine.