|
|
03-17-2011, 04:55 PM | #45 |
Brigadier General
326
Rep 3,882
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2011, 06:57 PM | #49 | |
World's Foremost Authority
1181
Rep 4,535
Posts
Drives: M4 Cab - Cayenne GTS - Jag XK
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upper East Side Manhattan - Boca Raton FL - Lime Rock CT
|
Quote:
The level of insistance on the superiority of an MT is usually inversely proportional to the ability to drive one propely. Anyone who thinks that a 6MT gives more control than a DCT very likely isn't very proficient at driving either. CA
__________________
Drivers Club at Lime Rock - International Motorsports Research Center - Society of Automotive Historians - Madison Avenue Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (0nly a VP) - BMWCCA - Porsche Club of America - M Gruppe - Polish Race Drivers of America (PDRA) - Glen Club (Watkins Glen International) - Jaguar Club of Southern New England |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2011, 08:02 PM | #50 | |
Veni Vidi Vici
89
Rep 2,750
Posts
Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Macungie PA
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2011 e90 M3-Sold [8.50]
2003 RS6 - Sold [0.00] 2009 e90 M3 - Gone [0.00] 2003 M3 SOLD [0.00] old 2002 [10.00] |
Quote:
Again I'll comment to the contrary of most everyone else here. I just bought my second dual clutch transmission car. VW DSG. It's great. I had a DCT transmission in a 2009 e90. It sucked at pretty much everything. Yeah, it could bang off an upshift in 41 microseconds or some other technologically wonderfully tiny amount of time. But it sucked. I don't love technology for the sake of technology. The DCT can't pull off a quick downshift smoothly 100% of the time. And that's the problem. I don't know when it's going to fuck up. Is it going to mess up my corner entry on that downhill decreasing radius with trees on both sides? Don't know. And that destroyed my confidence in the transmission. I do know that it tried to kill me for 18 months while BMW said there was nothing wrong with it. I do know that BMW after 18 months came out with a software update that stopped the POS from randomly trying to kill me when I'd slow and then ask for power (the dreaded 2+ second lag). Maybe I'm some super Stig snuffing, manual transmission shifting savant. But I doubt it. All I know is I can bang off downshifts consistently better than a DCT. I'll be out at NJMP and WGI with my slow shifting manual later this year. All you DCT drivers are welcome to come out and show me the way around the track in those technologically superior DCTs. Chances are you'll won't be significantly slower or faster, but you won't have as much fun while doing it, either.
__________________
Dinan compliment of stuff plus PF rotors and RG63s. Enough for now. Why, yes. I am an abrasive bastard. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2011, 08:23 PM | #51 | ||
Havin' a blast!
125
Rep 4,847
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
BRP 1:56 | CVR 2:01 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2011, 08:28 PM | #52 | |
World's Foremost Authority
1181
Rep 4,535
Posts
Drives: M4 Cab - Cayenne GTS - Jag XK
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upper East Side Manhattan - Boca Raton FL - Lime Rock CT
|
Quote:
Racing, however, is about winning, That's why it is called racing. Race cars have paddle shifted transmissions because they perform better. In racing there is a term for a driver who is slower but had more fun. He is refereed to as "the loser". CA
__________________
Drivers Club at Lime Rock - International Motorsports Research Center - Society of Automotive Historians - Madison Avenue Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (0nly a VP) - BMWCCA - Porsche Club of America - M Gruppe - Polish Race Drivers of America (PDRA) - Glen Club (Watkins Glen International) - Jaguar Club of Southern New England Last edited by captainaudio; 03-17-2011 at 08:54 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2011, 08:40 PM | #53 | |
World's Foremost Authority
1181
Rep 4,535
Posts
Drives: M4 Cab - Cayenne GTS - Jag XK
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upper East Side Manhattan - Boca Raton FL - Lime Rock CT
|
Quote:
If you don't know how to heel and toe you are nowhere close to being in complete control and the only reason you don't spin out is because you are driving far enough below the limits of the car that you can get away with poor driving technique. CA
__________________
Drivers Club at Lime Rock - International Motorsports Research Center - Society of Automotive Historians - Madison Avenue Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (0nly a VP) - BMWCCA - Porsche Club of America - M Gruppe - Polish Race Drivers of America (PDRA) - Glen Club (Watkins Glen International) - Jaguar Club of Southern New England |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2011, 08:46 PM | #54 |
Havin' a blast!
125
Rep 4,847
Posts |
^Indeed. BTW, I'm gonna hire you as my spokesperson. You're articulating this far better than I have been doing.
__________________
BRP 1:56 | CVR 2:01 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2011, 09:10 PM | #55 | |
Second Lieutenant
19
Rep 217
Posts |
Quote:
To the OP, doing heel toe or double clutch downshifts are hard when you are in the low rev range, the fact that you are applying constant brake pressure will almost always drop your rev below 1000rpm if your rev was lower than 2500 - 3000 to start with, so you'll almost always have that jerky motion. Manual cars today are equipped with syncros, so as long as you don't disengage the clutch for too long, your clutch won't break before you'd decided to sell it It's the proper way to drive a race car, but on the street? Don't worry about it. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2011, 09:39 PM | #56 |
Lieutenant Colonel
30
Rep 1,789
Posts |
I don't think I'm consistently faster or smoother than DCT with downshifts, but changing down multiple gears does feel rather slow at times. There is indeed a delay in the clutch release so it makes you wait before you can apply power.
I think because you're not physically pushing in the clutch and changing the gear, but rather just waiting, it feels slower than it actually is. Or it might just be slower in general. Oh and with a traditional manual, I rev-match all the time, but rarely if ever do I heel and toe on the street. You need to be rather hard on the brakes to perform it correctly. And rev-matched downshifts may not always be perfect, but as long as the balance of the car isn't upset, it's not a big deal. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-18-2011, 01:16 AM | #57 |
Major General
258
Rep 5,012
Posts |
You two stop pretending the M3 is a freaking race car; it's a STREET CAR, and neither of you nor 99.99%+ of the owners race competitively on their M3, so NONE of you really need the advantages of faster shifting.
And I said on a 6MT you have full control of the car (which you do), not that every 6MT driver drives like a race car driver . Nobody here is claiming to have racecar driving skills, but if you enjoy driving a 6MT, you're a true driver, no matter how skilled. Nobody was born a race car driver, so it takes practice to perfect anything, including the lost art of manual driving skills. The difference between DCT and 6MT drivers is that we're not embarrassed to admit we're not the best drivers in the world, and we're having a lot of fun learning to drive better. So cut the crap that we pretend to be better drivers because we like to be in control because nobody here is saying that; we're only saying we're better driving enthusiasts... because we are . So you egomaniac DCT sissies should ditch your automatic toys (or leave them to your wives) and buy a real man's car while you can . This is fun. Have a good one folks. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-18-2011, 02:44 AM | #58 | ||
Lieutenant
13
Rep 544
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
So... DCT drivers = egomaniacs 6MT drivers = douches? Correct me if I'm wrong... |
||
Appreciate
0
|
03-18-2011, 03:04 AM | #60 |
Track Addict
110
Rep 813
Posts
Drives: 2010 BMW M3 E92 | 2008 Z4M E86
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Orange County, California
|
IMO DCT is better in every single way except 6MT is funner because you do everything yourself.
__________________
BMW ///M3 Coupe
Completed November 16, 2009 Received December 29,2009 |
Appreciate
0
|
03-18-2011, 03:22 AM | #61 |
Major General
514
Rep 5,392
Posts
Drives: 08 JB E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-18-2011, 03:23 AM | #62 |
Colonel
248
Rep 2,513
Posts |
Ok please enough of DCT vs 6MT talk, it was fun at the beginning but it is getting boring and out of control now. Whatever DCT is, I chose 6MT for my specific reasons and if I had to choose again now, I would still get a manual M3!
Now back to topic, I can smothly drive except downshifting and rev matching. I want to hear more hints from 6MT drivers about rev matching and the best way to practice to get better at it. Thanks
__________________
AW|FR 6MT E92 ///M3 |
Appreciate
0
|
03-18-2011, 03:30 AM | #63 | |
Major General
514
Rep 5,392
Posts
Drives: 08 JB E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
|
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-18-2011, 04:40 AM | #64 |
Major General
514
Rep 5,392
Posts
Drives: 08 JB E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
|
also, if you gave $500 bucks laying around and dont know what to do with it. Buy a set of pulleys, it will make revmatching more fun.
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-18-2011, 04:40 AM | #65 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
30
Rep 1,789
Posts |
Quote:
Anyhow, slowing down to a red light or stop sign is a perfect time to practice your rev-matching. You can go through the gears, 4-3-2, or skip gears like 5-3. As mentioned, the more you do it, the easier it gets. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-18-2011, 04:53 AM | #66 |
Major General
514
Rep 5,392
Posts
Drives: 08 JB E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
|
I dont think skipping gears as you downshift is the best advice for the OP right now.
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|