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[aus]

What's your point? You're comparing it to a "wild pony" where I'm comparing it to an E46 M3

Oversteer by a regular guy who tracks his car: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=690676

Not a race car driver.

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[Drifty//]

Originally Posted by aus

What's your point? You're comparing it to a "wild pony" where I'm comparing it to an E46 M3

If you watch the vid, they're continually complaining about the understeer. That was the point.

[Drifty//]

BTW, that guy had been running for a long time with MDM on. He's starting to re-learn car control with it off. There's another long thread about it.

But if you want to debate the wisdom of a square setup, I suggest you do so in the Track forum. I am not as knowledgeable about the E92 or tracking it as most of those folks.

[aus]

Originally Posted by Drifty//

If you watch the vid, they're continually complaining about the understeer. That was the point.

Yes. That's an old vid I've seen many times. He's comparing it to a Mustang, which he also calls "wild pony" through out the video too because the tail hangs out more. If you can't understand that, there's no point in continuing this conversation. He was a profession race car driver who can drive anything fast around a track.

And I read the second thread too. The point is, he was OVERSTEERING A LOT with MDM out of the picture to save is ass. I've had the same experience on track too. The tail WILL come around on this car.

And I've read all the thread on the Track subforum about a square set-up. Early on, many people said it'll dial out the understeer, but then they realized there's not nearly as much understeer in the E9x platform compared to the E46.
If you want square to rotate, that's fine, but you'll get better balance with staggard, IMO.

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[Drifty//]

Originally Posted by aus

Yes. That's an old vid I've seen many times. He's comparing it to a Mustang, which he also calls "wild pony" through out the video too because the tail hangs out more.

He seems surprised by the amount of understeer on the E92. That's my point. Yes, he has race experience, but he also tracks a lot of street cars and obviously knows it's not a race car.

The point is, he was OVERSTEERING A LOT with MDM out of the picture to save is ass.

OC3 had been tracking a lot, always with MDM on. He built up some bad habits because of it. This was his first time with it off. He was making some very obvious mistakes and MDM wasn't there to paper over them. If he had been running staggered, he might not have had so much trouble, but his issues were far bigger than F/R bias.

You might still have a point, but this was a bad example to choose.

I've had the same experience on track too. The tail WILL come around on this car.

Any car you can't spin isn't worth tracking.

If you want square to rotate, that's fine, but you'll get better balance with staggard, IMO.

If you want the balance you find with staggered, then great.

I've read enough about understeer with the OEM stagger on the E92 that Square seems like a clear win. A lot of people are running square setups and like it. I'm square and I'll be tracking with as many drivers aids disabled as possible. Even then, I might find I want more rear-end grip. But I don't think reducing front end grip is the answer.