Steve Dinan talk at BMW of San Diego - Some Next Gen M Car Comments

[swamp2]

I went over the BMW of SD last night for an hour or so to hear Steve Dinan talk. The idea was to get a bunch of people more acquainted with what Dinan offers, his and his companies passion for cars and to drive some sales. There was a basic BBQ and Steve spent about and hour presenting. The attendance was good, at least 100 but many BMW employees as well. His passion for cars goes without question. However, I expected his presentation to be a lot more organized and professional. He jumped around among topics and showed a lot of videos of himself giving reviews of or driving cars. The AV quality was really poor and I could barely see the screen. I asked him a couple of questions in the Q&A at the end. He was also graciously available long after the end of the official Q&A to continue to get to every question possible.

1. I asked if he had any formal contact with engineering at BMW which offers Dinan some advantage over other tuners that do not have this. I suspected he might since he does have a good sales and marketing relationship with dealers. It appears this is where the relationship ends, sales and marketing and US only. He said occasionally he can get some low level/unofficial help perhaps when they work directly with BMW on a race car. But in general the answer was no.

2. I also asked him if he had any insights, guesses or tips on the next gen M car engines (M3 and M5) and if they would contain any technologies for reducing turbo lag. I found his answers to be very likely incorrect. He claimed that the next gen M5 will use the "exact" same engine as the X6M. I would not find it surprising if it shares some components but to use the same engine just won't happen IMHO. M cars have ALWAYS used unique engines designed from the ground up (at least at the block leve) for the new launching model. The X6M already has many M purists panties in a bunch, what would the M5 purists think of having a big SUV engine in their brand new $90k M5? I don't think the market nor BMW M will allow this. He also said he does not believe the cars will use any particularly new nor advanced methods to reduce turbo lag. I also find that one tough to believe.

[pmeloche]

Flip it the other way around: the SUV guys can say that they have an M5 engine in their X6M.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by swamp2

2. I also asked him if he had any insights, guesses or tips on the next gen M car engines (M3 and M5) and if they would contain any technologies for reducing turbo lag. I found his answers to be very likely incorrect. He claimed that the next gen M5 will use the "exact" same engine as the X6M. I would not find it surprising if it shares some components but to use the same engine just won't happen IMHO. M cars have ALWAYS used unique engines designed from the ground up (at least at the block leve) for the new launching model. The X6M already has many M purists panties in a bunch, what would the M5 purists think of having a big SUV engine in their brand new $90k M5? I don't think the market nor BMW M will allow this. He also said he does not believe the cars will use any particularly new nor advanced methods to reduce turbo lag. I also find that one tough to believe.

Jesus I hope he is wrong, if he is not, wow......that will be the final stake in //M, and the final sign that the marketing and bean counters have officially won. The thought of it makes me

Cheers,
e46e92

[SpencerM3]

Sounds like a cool vent, that didn't live up to expectations...?

[Serious]

the next m5 is going to use the x6m engine. they may turn the boost up a bit more but overall its going to be exactly the same.

[FStop7]

I'd be willing to bet the engine in the new M5/M6 will have more differences than that. Probably different cams, maybe revised heads, a slightly higher redline, etc.

[Bluechipper]

Originally Posted by swamp2

2. I also asked him if he had any insights, guesses or tips on the next gen M car engines (M3 and M5) and if they would contain any technologies for reducing turbo lag. I found his answers to be very likely incorrect. He claimed that the next gen M5 will use the "exact" same engine as the X6M. I would not find it surprising if it shares some components but to use the same engine just won't happen IMHO. M cars have ALWAYS used unique engines designed from the ground up (at least at the block leve) for the new launching model. The X6M already has many M purists panties in a bunch, what would the M5 purists think of having a big SUV engine in their brand new $90k M5? I don't think the market nor BMW M will allow this. He also said he does not believe the cars will use any particularly new nor advanced methods to reduce turbo lag. I also find that one tough to believe.

Well general consensus is the M5 is going to have the same engine in the X5/X6 M.

Some people are very upset they just pulled a powerplant of the shelf. Like you said, M5 has always had a unique powerplant.

Have you heard it going around the ring? The new M5 is very very quiet, sounds too similar to the X6M.

Originally Posted by FStop7

I'd be willing to bet the engine in the new M5/M6 will have more differences than that. Probably different cams, maybe revised heads, a slightly higher redline, etc.

I doubt it. They will probably do something similar to AMG and the 6.2 liter in their x63 cars. At most software, intake, exhaust will give it a slighty higher hp/tq ratings. M6 will also have this powerplant.

It will put it right in line with the new E63 and RS6. Yes beancounters are taking over.

[MrHarris]

I have a feeling they will use the same engine as in the X5M, just tuned a little more but generally the same engine. We will see as this is just a guess but that's where I'm placing my money. I feel BMW M wants to cut costs!

[MMMorish]

Originally Posted by MrHarris

I have a feeling they will use the same engine as in the X5M, just tuned a little more but generally the same engine. We will see as this is just a guess but that's where I'm placing my money. I feel BMW M wants to cut costs!

I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if M division used the same engine accross the entire M range and just tune each one according to its specific application. Sort of what Merc does with its AMG line up...all using the same engine with different tunes. This would definitely be a money savings to BMW in their R&D departments.

[mkoesel]

Not sure if you meant for that to include the M3 also, but BMW has already said that the next M3 will get a 6 cylinder motor. My personal feeling is that the motor will be derived from a regular series motor just as the S63 V8 is derived from the N63 V8, thereby lowering costs as you mention.

Originally Posted by MMMorish

I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if M division used the same engine accross the entire M range and just tune each one according to its specific application. Sort of what Merc does with its AMG line up...all using the same engine with different tunes. This would definitely be a money savings to BMW in their R&D departments.

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I went over the BMW of SD last night for an hour or so to hear Steve Dinan talk. The idea was to get a bunch of people more acquainted with what Dinan offers, his and his companies passion for cars and to drive some sales. There was a basic BBQ and Steve spent about and hour presenting. The attendance was good, at least 100 but many BMW employees as well. His passion for cars goes without question. However, I expected his presentation to be a lot more organized and professional. He jumped around among topics and showed a lot of videos of himself giving reviews of or driving cars. The AV quality was really poor and I could barely see the screen. I asked him a couple of questions in the Q&A at the end. He was also graciously available long after the end of the official Q&A to continue to get to every question possible.

1. I asked if he had any formal contact with engineering at BMW which offers Dinan some advantage over other tuners that do not have this. I suspected he might since he does have a good sales and marketing relationship with dealers. It appears this is where the relationship ends, sales and marketing and US only. He said occasionally he can get some low level/unofficial help perhaps when they work directly with BMW on a race car. But in general the answer was no.

2. I also asked him if he had any insights, guesses or tips on the next gen M car engines (M3 and M5) and if they would contain any technologies for reducing turbo lag. I found his answers to be very likely incorrect. He claimed that the next gen M5 will use the "exact" same engine as the X6M. I would not find it surprising if it shares some components but to use the same engine just won't happen IMHO. M cars have ALWAYS used unique engines designed from the ground up (at least at the block leve) for the new launching model. The X6M already has many M purists panties in a bunch, what would the M5 purists think of having a big SUV engine in their brand new $90k M5? I don't think the market nor BMW M will allow this. He also said he does not believe the cars will use any particularly new nor advanced methods to reduce turbo lag. I also find that one tough to believe.

Am I missing something...Where is the turbo lag? Considering that the 335I has no turbo lag at all, why would you think that a new M3 engine would?

[BMWCadet]

Great, another armchair e-car expert that thinks he knows more than specialists in their field. That V8TT will be in the M5, what makes you think that it wouldn't? The current gen M5/M6 share the same V10 and the M3's powerplant came from that exact engine, in a different form of course. Like it or not those chunky SUV/SAV's are M vehicles. Welcome to the future.

[BMWCadet]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Am I missing something...Where is the turbo lag? Considering that the 335I has no turbo lag at all, why would you think that a new M3 engine would?

The N54 does have a tiny bit of turbo lag, but nothing very noticeable. I know a lot of M owners would never say this about their cars, but the lack of torque sucks and the next gen M3, which may very well be a V6TT, will be amazing. If the purists want to leave, then bye! Go to Mercedes Benz.....oh wait, they're going FI too.

[Radiation Joe]

Not Steve Dinan, not anyone on this board has any clue what BMW is going to put into the next M5. So all of these comments are pretty much jibberish.

Has anyone considered that the engine in the X5M is extremely tall? PFH to put it into a high performance sedan without a 2 story "power bulge".

[BMWCadet]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

Not Steve Dinan, not anyone on this board has any clue what BMW is going to put into the next M5. So all of these comments are pretty much jibberish.

Has anyone considered that the engine in the X5M is extremely tall? PFH to put it into a high performance sedan without a 2 story "power bulge".

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=318634

Thanks for stopping by.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by swamp2

2. [...] He claimed that the next gen M5 will use the "exact" same engine as the X6M. [...]

That's quite certainly right.

Originally Posted by swamp2

[...] He also said he does not believe the cars will use any particularly new nor advanced methods to reduce turbo lag. [...]

That's quite certainly wrong. Assuming that he denies to have some top level contacts himself, I wouldn't take this bit of information as a sign of BMW dropping KERS.


Best regards,
south

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by BMWCadet

The N54 does have a tiny bit of turbo lag, but nothing very noticeable. I know a lot of M owners would never say this about their cars, but the lack of torque sucks and the next gen M3, which may very well be a V6TT, will be amazing. If the purists want to leave, then bye! Go to Mercedes Benz.....oh wait, they're going FI too.

Agreed. Some of the "purists" are just stuck in the mud. I've had 5 BMWs already (so some might call me a purist) and welcome anything that gets these cars to the next level. I do however plan on owning my current E92 M3 for quite some time so I hope they dont make the next generation too good

[Bammered]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I went over the BMW of SD last night for an hour or so to hear Steve Dinan talk. The idea was to get a bunch of people more acquainted with what Dinan offers, his and his companies passion for cars and to drive some sales. There was a basic BBQ and Steve spent about and hour presenting. The attendance was good, at least 100 but many BMW employees as well. His passion for cars goes without question. However, I expected his presentation to be a lot more organized and professional. He jumped around among topics and showed a lot of videos of himself giving reviews of or driving cars. The AV quality was really poor and I could barely see the screen. I asked him a couple of questions in the Q&A at the end. He was also graciously available long after the end of the official Q&A to continue to get to every question possible.

1. I asked if he had any formal contact with engineering at BMW which offers Dinan some advantage over other tuners that do not have this. I suspected he might since he does have a good sales and marketing relationship with dealers. It appears this is where the relationship ends, sales and marketing and US only. He said occasionally he can get some low level/unofficial help perhaps when they work directly with BMW on a race car. But in general the answer was no.

2. I also asked him if he had any insights, guesses or tips on the next gen M car engines (M3 and M5) and if they would contain any technologies for reducing turbo lag. I found his answers to be very likely incorrect. He claimed that the next gen M5 will use the "exact" same engine as the X6M. I would not find it surprising if it shares some components but to use the same engine just won't happen IMHO. M cars have ALWAYS used unique engines designed from the ground up (at least at the block leve) for the new launching model. The X6M already has many M purists panties in a bunch, what would the M5 purists think of having a big SUV engine in their brand new $90k M5? I don't think the market nor BMW M will allow this. He also said he does not believe the cars will use any particularly new nor advanced methods to reduce turbo lag. I also find that one tough to believe.

Im sorry but im my opinion apart from output the new ///M5 engine will have the indentical engine from the X5/X6 ///M's. The big change will be it's pairing to the 7spd DCT rather than the 6spd auto. Sadly the ///M5 will increasing change over from a 4 door 5 seat ferrari rival to a car that competes more directly with MB's AMG models. Its not what BMW out right wants, but are being forced into due to emission regs.
I think the ///M5 CSL was a clear message that BMW could have made an even more powerful and torquey S85 V10engine mated to the amazing dct tranny, however enviromental shifts have delivered the death blow to big block NA engines for mainstream cars.

[zuggerat89]

Originally Posted by BMWCadet

The N54 does have a tiny bit of turbo lag, but nothing very noticeable. I know a lot of M owners would never say this about their cars, but the lack of torque sucks and the next gen M3, which may very well be a V6TT, will be amazing. If the purists want to leave, then bye! Go to Mercedes Benz.....oh wait, they're going FI too.

FI = Fake HP... RIP M GmbH

[Kyoshi71]

What will BMW do with the S65? They couldnt have developed it for only 3 years of use or has the recent global warming hoax put enough pressure on them to be more fuel efficient?

[southlight]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

What will BMW do with the S65? They couldnt have developed it for only 3 years of use or has the recent global warming hoax put enough pressure on them to be more fuel efficient?

It shares development costs with the S85, so it's been developed for 8 years total (S85 started in 2004, S65 will end in 2012). Some say BMW is considering an Z4 Coupe of some kind paying a last tribute to the last generation of high revving and NA M engines. This car would bridge the gap between the E9x M3 and the F3x M3.


Best regards,
south

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by BMWCadet

Great, another armchair e-car expert that thinks he knows more than specialists in their field. That V8TT will be in the M5, what makes you think that it wouldn't? The current gen M5/M6 share the same V10 and the M3's powerplant came from that exact engine, in a different form of course. Like it or not those chunky SUV/SAV's are M vehicles. Welcome to the future.

WTF is wrong with you? Can't you act like an adult? Would you say that to his face tough guy?