Mobil 1 0w-40 or Castrol 10w-60...pros,cons

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by rixride

I don't get it..... Oh that's right why would BMW recommend 10/60..... Oh thats right there new at this, and they don't no anything about engines. They must be just guessing..... NOT!!!!

I'm guessing you are new to BMW's!? Are you not aware of their history with rod bearings? How about their flip flopping between recommended oils for the S62 without making any changes to the engine 5W30 to 10W60 and back to 5W30 again.

With their inability to make rod bearings last and the indecision on oil Viscosities one would think that they are indeed new at this.

[europower]

What do you guys think about the supercharged one? What oil? I'm in Utah so I was thinking about running the 5w30 Mobil 1 at least for the winter...

[WiFiGuy]

I've heard from many BMW track guys that I run into say not to sway from the 10w-60 for not only the bearings issue, but also the pressures that are reached internally with the VANOS since it leverages the oil system to make changes. What are the thoughts on this? I live down the road from Road Atlanta in Braselton GA. I am always up at the track and talk to these jokers running the S65's stuffed in e46's and running the e92's. Thought I would share what is being said. Just looking for thoughts here, I don't know.

[8k3]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

supercharger is no harder on the oil in daily driving is it?

Anytime you are on boost the engine is stressed more than if it wasn't a boosted vehicle

[8k3]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Personal I think different engine = different oil cap .
EDIT: After serious research of me (about the f@cking oil cap) it seems while changing oil , so when the oil cap is removed => Never put the oil cap up side down ...can cause oil leak around the oil cap gasket ....Imagine !
And I have serious trouble to believe that .

That's probably not what's happening. Residual oil is being held on the edges, gaskets, etc when you flip it upside down. As such, that tiny amount that remained from surface tension seeped out looking like a leak.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by 8k3

Anytime you are on boost the engine is stressed more than if it wasn't a boosted vehicle

but you don't really push it on a daily drive and as far as I know, rpms are still the same no? engine will run hotter but on a daily drive?

[M3 Number 86]

I use LiquiMoly 10w60 now. Have been for the past few track days. Oil temps seem lower even though I'm running harder and in hotter weather. Never done a blackstone report but I may start doing it now.

[8600RPM]

The valid counter to changing oil is indeed s65 relies on low pressure from oil to drive vanos. Although flow can't compensate and we have variable oil pump, the oil pressure doesn't necessarily stay withing right pressure for vanos

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by chris719

The engine will not feel different with the different oil, it's in your mind. Temps might change but M1 0w-40 is not going to rob you of any power, if anything it would produce more. Placebo is strong. Check the BITOG forums.

This is not entirely true. There needs to be a good balance and while a thinner oil can reduce parasitic losses and increase efficiency a thicker oil can help better seal the combustion chamber floor and can stop combustion pressure from squeezing past the rings, which will cause hp loss. Like aussiem3, I also noticed a difference when I switched from 10/60 to 5/40. Car felt less torquey and just a bit off. Hard to explain. It runs better cold and makes less startup noise, but I can definitely tell the difference in the overall feel of the car. Possibly the more age/miles on the engine the more small gaps develop between ring and wall and the thicker oil may help provide more compression. I am going to try to verify this with a before and after compression test when I get ready to switch back.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

but you don't really push it on a daily drive and as far as I know, rpms are still the same no? engine will run hotter but on a daily drive?

It's a water-cooled car, not air-cooled. Engine temps won't vary much for normal use.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by 8k3

That's probably not what's happening. Residual oil is being held on the edges, gaskets, etc when you flip it upside down. As such, that tiny amount that remained from surface tension seeped out looking like a leak.

Many synthetics use a small quantity of ester, which is polar. It will actually seep and stick to surfaces -- think of it like capillary action. This same effect actually helps in the motor because it slows down the oil from dripping off surfaces.

TWS definitely uses esters, FWIW.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by europower

What do you guys think about the supercharged one? What oil? I'm in Utah so I was thinking about running the 5w30 Mobil 1 at least for the winter...

M1 5w30 is way too thin, even for a stock M3. HTHSV is only 3.1, which means the oil is 43% thinner in operation than TWS! It's nearly 20% thinner than the 0w40 in operation.

TWS is actually an impressive oil in winter -- high VI (173) and phenomenal CCS value (4879 @ -25 C).

For a supercharged M3, I would consult the supercharger manufacturer for oil recommendations. You need to maintain a certain oil pressure and they will know it best, having tested things extensively.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by dparm

It's a water-cooled car, not air-cooled. Engine temps won't vary much for normal use.

Has anything been air cooled since porsche made the switch?

[MrPrena]

Thinking about going to M1 0w-40 during winter. Planning to do it next month. It would greatly appreciated if someone chime in with their experience w/ 0w40 longer than 10k miles.thanks.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Thinking about going to M1 0w-40 during winter. Planning to do it next month. It would greatly appreciated if someone chime in with their experience w/ 0w40 longer than 10k miles.thanks.

It's going to vary greatly depending on your specific motor and driving style. Best thing to do is run it to around 7,500, send off a sample of the oil for analysis (pay for the TBN & TAN analyses) and see if it can go longer. Anything else is just a guess.

[95RogueM3]

Originally Posted by dparm

It's going to vary greatly depending on your specific motor and driving style. Best thing to do is run it to around 7,500, send off a sample of the oil for analysis (pay for the TBN & TAN analyses) and see if it can go longer. Anything else is just a guess.

Is it agreed /valid idea of switching to 0w40 for winter? Has anyone done a Before/After analysis to know if 0w40 has a positive impact on wear during winter starts?

I'm also debating...but not if its not actually doing much/if any good.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by 95RogueM3

Is it agreed /valid idea of switching to 0w40 for winter? Has anyone done a Before/After analysis to know if 0w40 has a positive impact on wear during winter starts?

I'm also debating...but not if its not actually doing much/if any good.

Not that I know of. You would need to be very formulaic in your driving and maintenance for several years to really establish a baseline.

UOAs are only of limited use anyway -- they're better for gauging how well the oil is working for your situation, not engine wear. Best way to measure the engine wear would be to do a teardown.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to go to M1 0w40 for winter, but I will tell you that there are literally thousands of M3s (and M5s/M6s) used year round with 10w60 that are still running just fine. As I've mentioned above, TWS has excellent cold starting properties. BMW knows that people will drive these cars in very cold conditions and engineers them/selects lubricants that will work for that.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by dparm

It's a water-cooled car, not air-cooled. Engine temps won't vary much for normal use.

I think that is what I was saying - for a daily driven car it won't really matter. I'm not as technical though.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by WiFiGuy

I've heard from many BMW track guys that I run into say not to sway from the 10w-60 for not only the bearings issue, but also the pressures that are reached internally with the VANOS since it leverages the oil system to make changes. What are the thoughts on this? I live down the road from Road Atlanta in Braselton GA. I am always up at the track and talk to these jokers running the S65's stuffed in e46's and running the e92's. Thought I would share what is being said. Just looking for thoughts here, I don't know.

What you're saying doesn't make any sense at all on the modern engines. VANOS is not affected by oil weight because it is a variable system that will adjust itself as necessary.

I've run 0w40 on track on days over 100 degrees. The car runs cooler and revs faster on 0w40. Blackstone reports afterwards look excellent.

[Leonardo629]

Originally Posted by WiFiGuy

I've heard from many BMW track guys that I run into say not to sway from the 10w-60 for not only the bearings issue, but also the pressures that are reached internally with the VANOS since it leverages the oil system to make changes. What are the thoughts on this? I live down the road from Road Atlanta in Braselton GA. I am always up at the track and talk to these jokers running the S65's stuffed in e46's and running the e92's. Thought I would share what is being said. Just looking for thoughts here, I don't know.

It's probably true for S54 and S85, which are equipped with high pressure VANOS, our S65 utilizes oscillating rotor VANOS (engine oil pressure). As long as your engine can maintain normal engine oil pressure, VANOS will operate fine.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by 95RogueM3

Is it agreed /valid idea of switching to 0w40 for winter? Has anyone done a Before/After analysis to know if 0w40 has a positive impact on wear during winter starts?

I'm also debating...but not if its not actually doing much/if any good.

Originally Posted by dparm

It's going to vary greatly depending on your specific motor and driving style. Best thing to do is run it to around 7,500, send off a sample of the oil for analysis (pay for the TBN & TAN analyses) and see if it can go longer. Anything else is just a guess.

Thanks.

Yeah, I drive normally or maybe upto 6000ish RPM at full temp during winter.
During winter, it literally takes 15+ min (sometimes full 40min at lower than 0F) to reach 210F. This is one of the reason I want to go 0w-40 mainly.

Other opinion(s) and/or experience would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Thanks.

Yeah, I drive normally or maybe upto 6000ish RPM at full temp during winter.
During winter, it literally takes 15+ min (sometimes full 40min at lower than 0F) to reach 210F. This is one of the reason I want to go 0w-40 mainly.

Other opinion(s) and/or experience would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

Best way to tell would be to monitor oil pressure at various points of driving with the TWS, then do the same with the 0w40. If you see the same pressure with 0w40, it's probably fine.

I still use TWS because the car's under warranty and I don't want to get into that whole argument of why I deviated from the manufacturer recommendation should something happen. If the car was out of warranty, I would probably spend some time figuring out if there are any alternatives with the above oil pressure research.