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10-09-2012, 01:21 PM | #23 | |
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345 hp / 3.6L = 95.8 hp/liter 385 hp / 3.8L = 101.3 hp/liter 414 hp / 4.0L = 103.5 hp/liter clearly the GT3RS 4.0's 125 hp per liter (500 total) is in an entirely different league and quite an achievement, but again, considering the price tag on that, it's not worth debating. as I said in my first post, the Carrera motors do win in terms of fuel efficiency. however, that trade-off is both unsurprising and well worth it when you consider the improved throttle response and flatter torque curve of the S65 (which is due in part to the individual TB's). |
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10-09-2012, 01:46 PM | #24 | |
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So you are wrong...I didnt mean to use concede, but had originally meant to type "you so cede...". Not "you concede". There is a difference in words not in meaning. One more time, typing on a phone doesnt always yield proper grammar as I tend to like to keep grammar at least somewhat decent when typing on a forum that tends not to care much. |
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10-09-2012, 01:48 PM | #25 | |
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I know a 4.0 is quite expensive, but last I remember a 3.6/3.8 GT3 block isnt much difference in price AS A CRATE MOTOR compared to the S65. Both run about 30K IIRC. |
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10-09-2012, 01:51 PM | #26 |
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It's just an unfair comparison.
A used 997.2 GT3 not even the RS goes above a brand new M3 with comp package in term of pricing. Different cars for different people.
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10-09-2012, 01:59 PM | #27 | |
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I wouldn't know where to look up those costs so that we're looking at real numbers, but if it's true that the motors cost about the same, then suddenly the 911 chassis and body become even more expensive relative to the M3. I have always loved 911's, but they are WAY over-priced for what Porsche charges. especially now. however, I digress. the S65 should cost as much as the carrera engines as it's a far superior motor IMO. if you look at it that way, consider what an amazing chassis BMW is offering for $30k. |
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10-09-2012, 02:00 PM | #28 |
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Been there and done that. While a very nice car, the 997.1/997.2 Carrera S isn't any better than your M3. The 997 GT cars are the ones to lust after. There is not a single thing I liked better about my former 997S over my former E92M3.
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10-09-2012, 02:12 PM | #30 | |
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Porsche's are expensive and overpriced a bit, but I think Ferraris and Lambos and the like all are way, way overpriced (and most is simply due to lower production numbers)...frankly everything these days is overpriced, our M3s included...they are a bargain next to most other cars that are much higher priced. You could easily make the same arguement for the M3 GTS and how much youre paying for that same chasis vs. motor etc...now compare that car to a GT3 and things are clearer in terms of overall price. Last edited by Wolfinwolfsclothing; 10-09-2012 at 03:12 PM.. |
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10-09-2012, 02:24 PM | #31 |
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10-09-2012, 02:38 PM | #32 |
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agreed. just about everything my 997 did my M3 does better.
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10-09-2012, 05:09 PM | #33 | |
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10-09-2012, 06:40 PM | #34 |
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The turbos don't have the annoying induction note of the regular 911s. I like the induction note of the S54, but hated its exhaust note.
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10-09-2012, 06:51 PM | #35 |
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i'm sure that someone can chime in with how much an S65 costs, but i've been told a replacement Carrera engine is about $30k, while a GT3 engine is $45-50k. take this with a pinch of salt because i only read it from a Porsche forum. it's probably way more than the S65, regardless. and Porsche will never win a value for money competition with BMW. with Ferrari, it could
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10-09-2012, 08:29 PM | #36 | |
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10-10-2012, 10:40 AM | #38 |
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i have owned both 997 and now m3. I can say they are really different cars. Although I miss the 997, the M3 keeps me content. The M3 is more sudued and more appropiate for DD. M3 may have more power and bigger engine, but the 997 is quick and feels light. i am dying to get a 991 now.... The 997 is more rewarding as you already know it. What comes down is how you feel connected when you drive the car, so really you just have to take it for a test drive and determine it for yourself.
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10-10-2012, 12:52 PM | #39 |
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I drove the 997.1 and 997.2 back to back with the M3. I liked the .2 engine better than the .1, had significantly more power but I felt that the S65 had a slightly better throttle response. Not by a huge margin, but the advantage was there. I also thought it likes to rev more than either of the Porsche engines and was smoother in the process.
When talking about fuel economy, I hope you guys are taking into consideration the huge weight difference as well as the aero considerations. Is the Porsche engine really more fuel efficient or just powering a much smaller/lighter car? We'll probably never know? Considering the price difference, I think the S65 is an incredible achievement. I think if BMW had dropped it into a 3200lbs chassis they would have killed the non-GT3 performance wise. I'm a little bummed that they didn't and that they show no intention to compete in this category. Anyway, I loved how connected to the driver the 997.2 was and how direct the steering and transmission felt. If I could justify the $30,000 price difference, I'd probably buy one - then again for that much money I could simply buy a used Cayman and turn it into a much better track car than either the 911S or E90 M3, all the while keeping my bimmer.
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10-10-2012, 02:29 PM | #40 | |
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10-10-2012, 02:58 PM | #41 | |
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10-21-2012, 08:48 PM | #42 |
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The S65 only compares to the GT3 3.6L F6 IMO,as far as power delivery and responsiveness. Anything less from porsche does not compare
The S65 is smoother,more responsive and sounds better than the non GT porsche 3.4-3.8L engines. |
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10-21-2012, 09:25 PM | #43 |
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Anyone who would rather have an M3 than a 911 is an uneducated fool and thats a fact. The 911 is one of the best if not the best sportscar ever build. The M3 is a heavy, modified 3 series designed for middle aged business men to haul their kids and fat wife around in. If you think the M3 is better than you're a poor ass peasant and probably a shitty driver. Man up and get a Porsche... You're welcome M3 forums.
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10-21-2012, 09:53 PM | #44 |
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Debating on which cars/engine are better aside..the obvious fact is that the engine placements on the Porsche and M3 being at different ends of the car means that any real comparison of how these cars drive and feel is going to be vastly unfair.
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