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      01-03-2010, 01:08 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
I think you are pretty spot on here. My cayman S on 19" sport design wheels didnt ride too much different than the M3 on 19s and sport mode as far as comfort, yet still had much more feel/response and it soaked up bumps/rough road better than my Z4MC does. What I always find funny is that people think every Porsche rides like its a GT3/RS/2 and that its going to rattle your internal organs, however, Porsche makes a true sports car that can be driven every day. Most people who comment on this havnt owned one and driven it daily, while some of us have.
I also agree with 'photogs'. What a car feels like is in large part due to what youre used to.
I really liked how the Cayman seems to ride over bumps and road imperfections, while the M3 sort of plows through them. This is mitigated to some extent by the adjustable suspension. The ride of the Cayman and "lesser" 997s (including the TT) are perfectly fine for daily drivers.

Now that I have Eibachs installed, the M3 has vastly improved road feel without compromising the ride.
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      01-03-2010, 01:55 PM   #46
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i guess since i have the 6sp then the only thing i knew of was the nav update. if someone was getting a DCT then i can see your point

but anyone could have not followed break in 08, or 09. something you just have to chance i guess. i got my 08 with 9k miles on it and i was lucky enough to find out who the previous owner was. the dealer manager is friends with the guy, and he traded it for the E90 and is a M guy and took care of the car. well so he says. my car runs great so i assume it was done right

thanks for the DCT info

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Originally Posted by Tio///M View Post
Well obviously no exterior upgrades, but you don't have to worry about M-DCT software, its already upgraded. You wouldn't have to worry about an early 08' who might have accidentally gotten the M-DCT fluids changed. The Tech Pack recieved HD.

Plus lower mileaged compared to an 08 obviously and you never know, if the original owner followed the 1200 mile-break-in-service. Thats a big thing if not done properly. Hope that makes sense to ya.
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      01-03-2010, 03:18 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by footie View Post
I am finding it funny that you are saying any of the Porsches with the exception of the GT3 and GT2 feel dramatically stiffer than the M3 on normal suspension with 19" alloys. Part of the Porsche's appeal is their remarkably good ride considering the handling.

To me at least I would say if anyone finds the M3 on it's stiffest setting is too soft for them then they have a twisted option of what soft actual is.
lolol... my mom said it best, when i took her for her first ride and she wanted me to go into full on M mode...

"i think my kidneys are now lodged in my throat..."
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      01-03-2010, 05:15 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
I think you are pretty spot on here. My cayman S on 19" sport design wheels didnt ride too much different than the M3 on 19s and sport mode as far as comfort, yet still had much more feel/response and it soaked up bumps/rough road better than my Z4MC does. What I always find funny is that people think every Porsche rides like its a GT3/RS/2 and that its going to rattle your internal organs, however, Porsche makes a true sports car that can be driven every day. Most people who comment on this havnt owned one and driven it daily, while some of us have.
I also agree with 'photogs'. What a car feels like is in large part due to what youre used to.
I've owned a CaymanS and currently own a 997S and they ARE NOT daily driveable cars. They are extremely small and have no storage area. The CaymanS and a 997 ride fairly nice for true sports cars but to say that either rides better than an E92 is plain ridiculous. In fact, the C6Z06 that I owned was a better DD than the CS or 997.

I have driven an E92 over the same roads that I drive my 997S on nearly every day and the two aren't even close in terms of comfort. The Porsches have better feel from road to steering......and you pay for it in terms of comfort. It's all in what you want. Right now, I want a better DD which I why I am selling the 997S and looking for an E92M3.
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      01-03-2010, 11:40 PM   #49
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Footie,
I never said I found the Elise overly stiff. I like stiff cars, I'm used to driving them. I don't really need cushy rides (yet) - maybe when I get older.

I just found Elise stiffer than M3 or S2000. You may be right, possibly it was the rattling that confused me. I didn't really have much chance to drive it much (it wasn't mine) and Michigan roads suck - so that could be it.
I have extensive experience with the S2k though and suspension in that car was much stiffer then the M3 or the CaymanS
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      01-04-2010, 11:55 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
I dont agree. My cayman S was lighter than my Z4M by ~250 lbs, had 19" wheels and rode more comfortable than my Z4M Coupe does on 18s. I think a Cayman S or any 911 besides a GT3/RS/2 are PERFECT daily drivers if youre into driving and having a thrilling experience on the way to/from work, especially if you have some back roads you can carve up on the commute. What Im saying is, considering the immense amount more feel and agility you get with the 911/cayman, the comfort isnt much less than the m3.
I have a friend who is 6'4", and daily drives his cayman S and has never once has anything to complain about. I have also driven the e92 m3 over the same roads as all of my other cars, and I still prefer the most focused and agile ride of a true sports car to it. Again, its TOO SOFT FOR ME and my past cayman S and 911 were not uncomfortable by any means, neither is the current z4mc.
I still to this day feel that if you dont need the space and have the money, the 911 is the ultimate and by far best supercar daily driver. NO other car will combine the performance, comfort and looks and quality like a 911 turbo does. If you do need the space, the panamera lineup has it and makes a mockery of 99.9% of sports GTs or sports cars.
You can justify why you want the e92 m3 scott, but you and I both know youll be bored/tired of it in no time. You can pick up a low milage 2008 m3 for mid 40s right now. They are experiencing some of the worst depreciation rates in the market right now, so at least youre in a good position/time to pick one up.
since you have driven pretty much most porsche, does gt3 or cayman s have body roll some corner on the street? which one has more body roll?

what about the z4m. does it has body roll?

how do they compare to the new m3 in term of body roll?
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      01-04-2010, 05:40 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
I dont agree. My cayman S was lighter than my Z4M by ~250 lbs, had 19" wheels and rode more comfortable than my Z4M Coupe does on 18s. I think a Cayman S or any 911 besides a GT3/RS/2 are PERFECT daily drivers if youre into driving and having a thrilling experience on the way to/from work, especially if you have some back roads you can carve up on the commute. What Im saying is, considering the immense amount more feel and agility you get with the 911/cayman, the comfort isnt much less than the m3.
I have a friend who is 6'4", and daily drives his cayman S and has never once has anything to complain about. I have also driven the e92 m3 over the same roads as all of my other cars, and I still prefer the most focused and agile ride of a true sports car to it. Again, its TOO SOFT FOR ME and my past cayman S and 911 were not uncomfortable by any means, neither is the current z4mc.
I still to this day feel that if you dont need the space and have the money, the 911 is the ultimate and by far best supercar daily driver. NO other car will combine the performance, comfort and looks and quality like a 911 turbo does. If you do need the space, the panamera lineup has it and makes a mockery of 99.9% of sports GTs or sports cars.
You can justify why you want the e92 m3 scott, but you and I both know youll be bored/tired of it in no time. You can pick up a low milage 2008 m3 for mid 40s right now. They are experiencing some of the worst depreciation rates in the market right now, so at least youre in a good position/time to pick one up.
Greg - the only test of a DD car is not just how it rides. Take a CaymanS or a 911 out with a client in the car, pick up drycleaning or haul a set of golf clubs and then judge how "daily driveable" it is. I know this first hand as I'm experiencing it right now. I'm not taking a darn thing away from Porsche...they are remarkable cars. They also ride pretty well for a true sports car.....albeit a rougher ride than any E9xM3.

As far as the Panamera goes ---- you can't outrun ugly and that car is outright hideous looking. The new M5 will have it all day long over that car in terms of looks and performance.

I'm not trying to justify anything for my potential purchase of the M3. Look how many damn cars I've had in the past three years. Who knows if this will be "the one" or not. I just know that I liked the comfort combined with performance of the E60M5 I had but hated the SMG and the 10.2mpg I got...was a bit too big as well...I know that I like the tossability of the 997S and the sportscar feel (save for the rattles). I don't think anything past the 993s are beautiful to look at. They're nice but not gorgeous like the 964 and 993s. The fact that I want a trunk, a DCT transmission and a bit more comfort/features (see Sat radio, Bluetooth, Ipod hookup), I think the E92M3 is the best fit out there of combining those two cars. My plan is to pick up a 993 for a weekend car.

It's all good buddy. I know you are more of a Porsche guy than me. While I think they are great cars, I don't get "the charge" out of them that you do. My favorite car I've ever owned is still my old E46M3.
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      01-04-2010, 05:50 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
They are experiencing some of the worst depreciation rates in the market right now, so at least youre in a good position/time to pick one up.
Um, depreciation rates in the market compared to what? All luxury cars took a hit during the recession. Go to 6speedonline.com and you're see all the guys who grabbed new 09 911s for 20% off list.

Cash is king right now.
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      01-04-2010, 07:52 PM   #53
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Perhaps you don't take your clothes to the drylceaner, haul clients or play golf, softball, hockey, etc.....but many do (including me) and Porsches are the biggest pain in the ass when it comes to carrying ANY of these things.

E60M5 looks better than the Panamera and the new F10 is much better looking than the Pan.

Rattles galore on 997s. We are talking 2009 model year $100K cars here.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...-2-c4-cab.html

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...s-rattles.html

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...es-breaks.html
Attached Images
  
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      01-04-2010, 08:44 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
You do realize that 2009 Porsche are now LEFTOVERS right??? I can also guarantee those cars were also pretty optioned cars that MSRP'd over 100K.
Yes, if you buy them now they are 09 leftovers but all the buying was going on end of summer, as alms21 showed in the URL links. Which means, P-car were down in the market as well as every other luxury nameplate except for Audi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
I know how it works very well, my family happens to own a Porsche dealership.
I don't know if you meant to sound obnoxious, but it really came out that way.

I guess your family knows as well as I do that the P-car market has hit the skids recently and there are tons of recent 911s, CS and Boxsters you can pick up for cheap now. Porsche had it good in the good times, but is eating crow like everyone else in a recession.

BTW - you're with JD or PM?
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      01-04-2010, 09:37 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
If you do need the space, the panamera lineup has it and makes a mockery of 99.9% of sports GTs or sports cars.
Let me see if I got this right - the M3 is too soft and has way too little feel compared to a 911 or Cayman and it's of course all got to do with the extra 400 lbs of weight it carries.

But yet you'd prefer a 4400 lbs Panamera to it, simply because it has more power, more grip and way less feel.



I think I was following your script pretty closely and nodding my head, right up to the point where you lit the crack pipe with the logic 101 manual...
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      01-05-2010, 09:37 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
"Personally, if it were us, we'd just move to flatter ground and still purchase a 2010 Porsche Panamera 4S. It's nothing less than the finest high-performance four-door sedan money can buy."
Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinions - and that's one of the more positive reviews I've seen, there have been far less flattering ones. The Panamera got slammed by the "real" driver's magazines such as Evo - and they constantly praise the M3.

Personally, I think an M3 will definitely hang with it "in the tight stuff" and still provides the best driving experience a sedan has to offer.

But then I thought that when I compared it to an M5 too - which is why I ended up with the M3 instead.

I'd very much like to see direct back to back comparisons, not memories of past drives.
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      01-05-2010, 10:01 AM   #57
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x 2

No matter what, the Panamera is a 4400 lbs sedan. Funny how some people keep slamming M3 as "way too heavy and bloated" despite being "only" 3570 lbs yet, would sing praises for a 2+ ton sedan at how good it is in the tight corners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinions - and that's one of the more positive reviews I've seen, there have been far less flattering ones. The Panamera got slammed by the "real" driver's magazines such as Evo - and they constantly praise the M3.

Personally, I think an M3 will definitely hang with it "in the tight stuff" and still provides the best driving experience a sedan has to offer.

But then I thought that when I compared it to an M5 too - which is why I ended up with the M3 instead.

I'd very much like to see direct back to back comparisons, not memories of past drives.
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      01-05-2010, 11:17 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Youre also entitled to your own oppinion, but they both serve two different purposes. The fact that a 4400 lb car is able to run with most supercars is a testament to its engineering and capabilities.
Correct............and the same is true for the M3, especially when you consider that it's based on.
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      01-05-2010, 07:35 PM   #59
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Anyone wager with me that the next M5 weighs less than the previous? I think so, and certainly <4000 lbs. I'd also wager it will easily outperform the non-turbo Panameras and be neck and neck with the Panamera turbo.
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      01-06-2010, 08:43 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by alms21 View Post
Greg - the only test of a DD car is not just how it rides. Take a CaymanS or a 911 out with a client in the car, pick up drycleaning or haul a set of golf clubs and then judge how "daily driveable" it is. I know this first hand as I'm experiencing it right now. I'm not taking a darn thing away from Porsche...they are remarkable cars. They also ride pretty well for a true sports car.....albeit a rougher ride than any E9xM3.

As far as the Panamera goes ---- you can't outrun ugly and that car is outright hideous looking. The new M5 will have it all day long over that car in terms of looks and performance.

I'm not trying to justify anything for my potential purchase of the M3. Look how many damn cars I've had in the past three years. Who knows if this will be "the one" or not. I just know that I liked the comfort combined with performance of the E60M5 I had but hated the SMG and the 10.2mpg I got...was a bit too big as well...I know that I like the tossability of the 997S and the sportscar feel (save for the rattles). I don't think anything past the 993s are beautiful to look at. They're nice but not gorgeous like the 964 and 993s. The fact that I want a trunk, a DCT transmission and a bit more comfort/features (see Sat radio, Bluetooth, Ipod hookup), I think the E92M3 is the best fit out there of combining those two cars. My plan is to pick up a 993 for a weekend car.

It's all good buddy. I know you are more of a Porsche guy than me. While I think they are great cars, I don't get "the charge" out of them that you do. My favorite car I've ever owned is still my old E46M3.
I like that last comment. Glad i'm still enjoy the e46 m3. LOL

what special about the e46 m3 that you still like it?
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      01-06-2010, 09:28 AM   #61
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i feel the panamera and gtr are very similar in desing philosophy. big love it/hate it cars that can hang with supercar. except the panamera is even bigger and more luxurious. Although I think the interior of the panamera is overly busy and geared toward the older 50+ crowd.
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      01-06-2010, 05:54 PM   #62
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I like that last comment. Glad i'm still enjoy the e46 m3. LOL

what special about the e46 m3 that you still like it?
To be 100% honest, it was the first "performance" car (to speak of) that I ever owned and that stout stance just sticks in my mind. I can remember the first time I drove one all the way down to the clutch feel and shifting. Aesthetically, I think it is an absolutley gorgeous car....even today any E46M3 I see on the road, the driver gets the "thumbs up" from me.
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      01-06-2010, 06:21 PM   #63
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To be 100% honest, it was the first "performance" car (to speak of) that I ever owned and that stout stance just sticks in my mind. I can remember the first time I drove one all the way down to the clutch feel and shifting. Aesthetically, I think it is an absolutley gorgeous car....even today any E46M3 I see on the road, the driver gets the "thumbs up" from me.
+1

I like the way the E92 looks, but the E46 M3 has a much more unique and timeless design. It also has a lot more character and personality to it, in terms of performance, interior and exterior.

My car has a black on blue theme, and the other day, an E46 M3 with the same color scheme pulled up next to me. If the red light had lasted any longer, I might have needed to change my shorts (and not just because it was being driven by an attractive blonde).
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      01-06-2010, 06:40 PM   #64
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Quote:
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+1

I like the way the E92 looks, but the E46 M3 has a much more unique and timeless design. It also has a lot more character and personality to it, in terms of performance, interior and exterior.

My car has a black on blue theme, and the other day, an E46 M3 with the same color scheme pulled up next to me. If the red light had lasted any longer, I might have needed to change my shorts (and not just because it was being driven by an attractive blonde).
Your car is nothing to sneeze at man. I saw your other thread today in the pics section.....absolutely gorgeous buddy. Love everything about it. Congrats.
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      01-06-2010, 07:51 PM   #65
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Your car is nothing to sneeze at man. I saw your other thread today in the pics section.....absolutely gorgeous buddy. Love everything about it. Congrats.
Thank you very much, sir.
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      01-06-2010, 11:02 PM   #66
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X2...Tlud your car does look great. IB is such a great color. My Z4M roadster was IB over black and its just such a beautiful color. IMO bmws best blue color.
Thanks. I hear some criticism on the forums about IB having too much purple, but in person it's such a spectacularly deep and multi-dimensional color. Even before I bought this car, it is THE color that I associated with M.
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