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      08-26-2011, 03:16 PM   #89
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Funny video.....


...and I do agree with his analogy of DCT vs a traditional manual.
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      08-26-2011, 03:56 PM   #90
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I would have gotten the 1M if it were available. Seriously nice driving car. I called and went to every BMW dealer in the area. Dealers either couldn't get them or were asking astronomical prices. One was at $90K!

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      08-26-2011, 04:15 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3 View Post
that review sucked. someone actually pays him to say stuff? incredible.
+1 Everyone has an opinion an thats fine but there was no real substance in the review...........and furthermore the presenter made himself look like a complete cock.
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      08-27-2011, 02:57 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
I would have gotten the 1M if it were available. Seriously nice driving car. I called and went to every BMW dealer in the area. Dealers either couldn't get them or were asking astronomical prices. One was at $90K!

that one is still for sale? what a surprise.
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      08-27-2011, 06:24 AM   #93
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M3s have not exactly flown off the dealers' floors, either.
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      09-01-2011, 05:21 PM   #94
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This Motortrend review doesn't like the 1m. I posted this one on the m3 forum but it was moved.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=580294
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      09-30-2011, 09:17 PM   #95
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That oval shaped chainring was called "Bio Pace" I think. Goofy.


My current ride is a Pinarello Prince with Campy Super Record (it goes to 11)
Nice! I'm a metal guy (and apologies for prolonging the thread hijack )

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      10-01-2011, 02:21 AM   #96
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Totally agree that the fellow in the video in the OP is a total D.B. The guy who was so confused by the PDK is also a D.B. You are confused, perhaps using automatic mode and mis-shifting, you openly hate and mock the PDK transmission and viola, in ONE lap it has a worse time? The standards of unbiased journalism are completely absent in both pieces.

Always nice to see that the MT vs. Automated Manual debate rages on... I've participated in many of those here in this forum. Here we are revisiting all the key points from terminology to insecurity and from performance to involvement. The longevity and passion for the topic tells us there are really some very fundamental chords struck with it.

I've always found automated manuals to be very engaging. Perhaps my appreciation for the technical achievement, hardware and software does bias me even in the midst of pushing my car hard when I am not at all actually thinking about technology. A good AMT/DCT really does free your mind and body to focus on more subtle and delicate parts of driving. Sounds a big new-agey but it is straight up true. Because a MT does take a fair amount of skill, dedication and practice to fully master it isn't surprising that folks come to believe it is essential or required for both "involvement" and enjoyment. It really isn't. In my humble opinion it is mostly pride in a hard won skill and some prejudice as well that keeps many of the pro MT/anti AMT folks stuck with a partial misconception of what driving really is. Pushing a lever with your foot and pulling another with your arm is neither equivalent to driving nor essential to it.

Let the OT debate continue...
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      10-01-2011, 10:14 AM   #97
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^ Nicely stated
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      10-01-2011, 10:36 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Totally agree that the fellow in the video in the OP is a total D.B. The guy who was so confused by the PDK is also a D.B. You are confused, perhaps using automatic mode and mis-shifting, you openly hate and mock the PDK transmission and viola, in ONE lap it has a worse time? The standards of unbiased journalism are completely absent in both pieces.

Always nice to see that the MT vs. Automated Manual debate rages on... I've participated in many of those here in this forum. Here we are revisiting all the key points from terminology to insecurity and from performance to involvement. The longevity and passion for the topic tells us there are really some very fundamental chords struck with it.

I've always found automated manuals to be very engaging. Perhaps my appreciation for the technical achievement, hardware and software does bias me even in the midst of pushing my car hard when I am not at all actually thinking about technology. A good AMT/DCT really does free your mind and body to focus on more subtle and delicate parts of driving. Sounds a big new-agey but it is straight up true. Because a MT does take a fair amount of skill, dedication and practice to fully master it isn't surprising that folks come to believe it is essential or required for both "involvement" and enjoyment. It really isn't. In my humble opinion it is mostly pride in a hard won skill and some prejudice as well that keeps many of the pro MT/anti AMT folks stuck with a partial misconception of what driving really is. Pushing a lever with your foot and pulling another with your arm is neither equivalent to driving nor essential to it.

Let the OT debate continue...
I agree with much of what you posted, however, some still appreciate the act the shifting manually. It is not the "belief" of involvement, it is what that person defines as involvement. There is no misconception to either point, partial nor complete. Your second to last sentence is true but that does not change how shifting makes one feel over another.

Last edited by devo; 10-01-2011 at 10:43 AM..
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      10-01-2011, 10:42 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by M3Now! View Post
Nice! I'm a metal guy (and apologies for prolonging the thread hijack )

Cheers
Long live Ti!

Love my Merlin Extra Lite. I heard merlin was revamping their Ti line-up with an expected release spring 2012.
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      10-01-2011, 01:13 PM   #100
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MT vs DCT......okay, how about stability control vs. no stability control. Or traction control. Or anti-lock brakes. Let's go even further.....what about basic power steering and power brakes. How about even power windows and door locks.

Each time there was a major technological advancement, there were those that felt it detracted from the "pure" driving experience despite the fact that the feature provided tangible performance, safety and or convenience benefits.

Until very recently, manual transmissions had a clear performance advantage over automatics, but with the development of dual clutch automatics, this is no longer true.

I bought an MT M3 simply for the fun of it, because I enjoy the physical actions involved in shifting and the control I have over the engine-driveline interface. For me, it provides a more rewarding and fun driving experience. However, I fully acknowledge that DCT is the technologically superior option from both a performance and safety standpoint.

Where one chooses to draw the line in terms of how much technology is desireable vs. not is an entirely individual decision, and it goes beyond just transmission choice.
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      10-01-2011, 01:22 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
MT vs DCT......okay, how about stability control vs. no stability control. Or traction control. Or anti-lock brakes. Let's go even further.....what about basic power steering and power brakes. How about even power windows and door locks.

Each time there was a major technological advancement, there were those that felt it detracted from the "pure" driving experience despite the fact that the feature provided tangible performance, safety and or convenience benefits.

Until very recently, manual transmissions had a clear performance advantage over automatics, but with the development of dual clutch automatics, this is no longer true.

I bought an MT M3 simply for the fun of it, because I enjoy the physical actions involved in shifting and the control I have over the engine-driveline interface. For me, it provides a more rewarding and fun driving experience. However, I fully acknowledge that DCT is the technologically superior option from both a performance and safety standpoint.

Where one chooses to draw the line in terms of how much technology is desireable vs. not is an entirely individual decision, and it goes beyond just transmission choice.

Just out of curiosity, HOW is DCT/AT safer than MT? That's quite a stretch as far as I'm concerned.
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      10-01-2011, 01:23 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
MT vs DCT......okay, how about stability control vs. no stability control. Or traction control. Or anti-lock brakes. Let's go even further.....what about basic power steering and power brakes. How about even power windows and door locks.

Each time there was a major technological advancement, there were those that felt it detracted from the "pure" driving experience despite the fact that the feature provided tangible performance, safety and or convenience benefits.

Until very recently, manual transmissions had a clear performance advantage over automatics, but with the development of dual clutch automatics, this is no longer true.

I bought an MT M3 simply for the fun of it, because I enjoy the physical actions involved in shifting and the control I have over the engine-driveline interface. For me, it provides a more rewarding and fun driving experience. However, I fully acknowledge that DCT is the technologically superior option from both a performance and safety standpoint.

Where one chooses to draw the line in terms of how much technology is desireable vs. not is an entirely individual decision, and it goes beyond just transmission choice.
Agreed!

BTW excellent photo above of your M3.
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      10-01-2011, 01:23 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
..... Pushing a lever with your foot and pulling another with your arm is neither equivalent to driving nor essential to it.

Let the OT debate continue...
Owning a car like the M3 goes WAY beyond what is "essential" for driving. The essentials of driving can be satisfied with a Toyota Yaris. From, that standpoint, I do not agree with your MT/DCT analysis.
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      10-01-2011, 01:26 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Just out of curiosity, HOW is DCT/AT safer than MT? That's quite a stretch as far as I'm concerned.
Two hands on the wheel at all times when you are driving fast, even through turns. No need to remove one hand from the wheel when downshifting, etc.
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Last edited by LarThaL; 10-01-2011 at 01:46 PM..
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      10-01-2011, 01:40 PM   #105
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Quote:
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Agreed!

BTW excellent photo above of your M3.
Thanks!! I really think this is the most flattering angle for the M3. I really find our cars to be one of the hottest looking cars on the road, full blown exotics aside.



I'm sure there will be little disagreement on that point. The aggressive yet cleanly styled front and rear fascias. The subtle yet powerful bulges and curves. The flared front fenders and smoothly tapered in rear. The smooth sweepy body lines. The smooth and swoopy interior design....everything.
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