Brake Pad Advice

[M.A.R.C.]

Might be doing my first track day within the next month or two so I was pondering the whole brake situation since I've been reading it's the only "weakpoint" on the car.

For starters... the car is a bone stock E90 ZCP on PZero's. I don't have any track experience but I used to autocross often but I haven't in a while. Not to mention that was in an S2000. Bottom line is I don't expect to out drive what the car is capable of any time soon.

The car only has about 28k miles so the stock brakes are in good shape and I'm still in the BMW maintenance and warranty period. I think my rears are due to be replaced (based on time) just prior to when I would likely do a track day. Brake fluid will be flushed and replaced with ATE 200 prior.

My question is whether or not I should change from the OEM pads to start. My options I guess are:

1. Run on OEM pads + fluid (at least for first track day)
2. Upgrade to something like Pagid RS19 (RS19 seems to be the forum favorite). Also, if I do change pads I'm assuming I'd have to get the rotors turned/resurfaced prior to that or can the aftermarket pads be used on the current rotors with just the bedding process and just pad swap between street and track?

[Groundpilot]

Oem pads and fluid is not safe even for one day. I would use rs19s with castrol SRF fluid.

[Z K]

OEM pads can hold up depending on how hard you are on them. The stock brake fluid definitely will not. I would do a brake fluid flush before going. ATE 200 is not good enough. It will not withstand the heat.

[M.A.R.C.]

yeah fluid is definitely planned. was just curious on the pads holding up.

[gan1hck]

Originally Posted by M.A.R.C.

yeah fluid is definitely planned. was just curious on the pads holding up.

depends on how you define "holding up"...

Seems that everyone I know...including novice drivers...develop "pad deposits" after one day with a shuddering steering wheel under brake.

I would recommend switching out.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by gan1hck

depends on how you define "holding up"...

Seems that everyone I know...including novice drivers...develop "pad deposits" after one day with a shuddering steering wheel under brake.

I would recommend switching out.

+1. Rotor change isn't needed just bed them properly.

[gan1hck]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

+1. Rotor change isn't needed just bed them properly.

+1 on keeping the rotors.

[M.A.R.C.]

that's true. I have a friend with a F80 335i that tracks on all stock components and his brakes seems to hold up fine. another thing i'm considering is since i'm still under warranty/maintenance so I might try it out on stocks first

[Z K]

Originally Posted by M.A.R.C.

yeah fluid is definitely planned. was just curious on the pads holding up.

I drove on the track with stock pads. I wasn't very hard on them knowing they were stock pads. I'd do 4-5 laps and pull out early when it was fading. (about 1/2 of a 20 min session) Then do a few cool down laps driving normally around the paddock area before parking. Seemed to be ok.

[1MOREMOD]

Issue is going to be deposits not if they will work. Probably have major shudder under braking during the day.

[Saandiaago]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Issue is going to be deposits not if they will work. Probably have major shudder under braking during the day.

Will the deposits come off after a few hundred miles?

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Saandiaago

Will the deposits come off after a few hundred miles?

Depends how bad they are. Dealer told me I had the worst warped rotors they ever saw, didn't believe them because knew it was deposits and after switching to track pads they were fine. May take longer than couple hundred but will come off eventually.

[z3papa]

When it comes to track days, get a dedicated set of pads and preferably rotors as early as possible. Changing pads and rotors can be done very quickly and insures you/your car will stand what you are about to throw at it. Stock pads are great for street or autocross but really are prone to brake fade pretty quickly if you push it at all. Nothing worse than finding out 2/3's through 25 minute session you have to come off because they are getting questionable. Dedicated pads are noisy, abrasive and can leave ridiculous deposits which need to be removed ASAP, but they do stop you when you are going fast.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by z3papa

When it comes to track days, get a dedicated set of pads and preferably rotors as early as possible. Changing pads and rotors can be done very quickly and insures you/your car will stand what you are about to throw at it. Stock pads are great for street or autocross but really are prone to brake fade pretty quickly if you push it at all. Nothing worse than finding out 2/3's through 25 minute session you have to come off because they are getting questionable. Dedicated pads are noisy, abrasive and can leave ridiculous deposits which need to be removed ASAP, but they do stop you when you are going fast.

deposits are from the pads melting and then sticking to the rotors. Race pads should not do that so won't cause ridiculous deposits, that's what a street pad will do.

[z3papa]

I'm talking about what is left on the wheel which if left for a few days can be a bear to get off.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by z3papa

I'm talking about what is left on the wheel which if left for a few days can be a bear to get off.

True. Always pull my wheels and clean the barrels anyway of all clag. Keeps away brake dust also.

[FogCityM3]

1st track day and a fluid swap will be fine (but is a must) After that, have better pads at a minimum.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

1st track day and a fluid swap will be fine (but is a must) After that, have better pads at a minimum.

This. Or if you want to avoid the risk of pad deposits (which happened to me early in my track driving when using OEM pads), then the StopTech Street Performance pads are a good compromise pad. You can use them full-time since they behave just like OEM on the road, but they resist fade and pad deposits much better on the track, plus they're inexpensive, so they're a nice alternative to buying full race pads if you're not sure you'll keep tracking and/or don't want to deal with pad swaps. If you get to the advanced level or even well into the intermediate level depending on the track you're running, you WILL need to get better pads, but that can wait. I actually still run those StopTech pads in the rear at the track, paired with PFC 08s up front.

Going to race pads right away can make it much harder to be smooth under braking at a stage in your driving where learning to be smooth will already be plenty challenging, and on stock tires your race pads will be able to overpower your tires easily, so you'll either have to get much better at threshold braking much faster or deal with the instability of earlier and more frequent ABS intrusions while trying to slow down and turn in, which is why I recommend only getting as much brake pad as your track and skill level requires.

But yes, upgrade your fluid. I do some trackside garage work sometimes and fluid bleeds on cars driven by novices running stock fluid are by far the #1 job out there.

[Saandiaago]

Originally Posted by jphughan

This. Or if you want to avoid the risk of pad deposits (which happened to me early in my track driving when using OEM pads), then the StopTech Street Performance pads are a good compromise pad. You can use them full-time since they behave just like OEM on the road, but they resist fade and pad deposits much better on the track, plus they're inexpensive, so they're a nice alternative to buying full race pads if you're not sure you'll keep tracking and/or don't want to deal with pad swaps. If you get to the advanced level or even well into the intermediate level depending on the track you're running, you WILL need to get better pads, but that can wait. I actually still run those StopTech pads in the rear at the track, paired with PFC 08s up front.

Going to race pads right away can make it much harder to be smooth under braking at a stage in your driving where learning to be smooth will already be plenty challenging, and on stock tires your race pads will be able to overpower your tires easily, so you'll either have to get much better at threshold braking much faster or deal with the instability of earlier and more frequent ABS intrusions while trying to slow down and turn in, which is why I recommend only getting as much brake pad as your track and skill level requires.

But yes, upgrade your fluid. I do some trackside garage work sometimes and fluid bleeds on cars driven by novices running stock fluid are by far the #1 job out there.

Sorry for the thread jack OP. Excellent advice here. I'm thinking of swapping out my OEM brake fluid as recommended by several members, but I am curious as to how often I will need to change the fluid if I use something like Motul 600? I anticipate around 3 track days per year. My car still has scheduled maintenance with BMW, so will there be a compatibility issue when they replace my brake fluid as scheduled or should I just provide the fluid that I want them to use? Thanks.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Saandiaago

Sorry for the thread jack OP. Excellent advice here. I'm thinking of swapping out my OEM brake fluid as recommended by several members, but I am curious as to how often I will need to change the fluid if I use something like Motul 600? I anticipate around 3 track days per year. My car still has scheduled maintenance with BMW, so will there be a compatibility issue when they replace my brake fluid as scheduled or should I just provide the fluid that I want them to use? Thanks.

Just provide the fluid you want them to use. At least thats what I have done in past.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Just provide the fluid you want them to use. At least thats what I have done in past.

I have ran pretty much every known high perf fluid (Motul 600,660 RBF etc) and SRF is worth the penny. That paired with Pagid Yellows (which by the way are rebranded Tektar sport pads which BMW supplies in Europe as sport pads from the dealer). Happy with the above combo. Although must admit PF08s are a coin toss here too.

Have fun but please dont use stock fluid on the track, I have had intermediate students freak due to pedal getting almost half way down. Stock pads some can wear it fine, others to the plate in a weekend. YMMV.

Lutfy

[1MOREMOD]

Haven't ran srf since my e90 because I have a ton of ate to use up but agree it's worth not bleeding all the time.