Drove an e90 M3 Yesterday

[M2381]

Originally Posted by AMJ_77

Nothing that has not been posted 5 million times before. Your points are valid but the M3 will be modifiable in due time to improve its performance as well. I get 27 MPG on the highway in my M3. I agree I like that throw you in the seat feeling as well but the M is so much tighter in every other way than the 335 as long as you are willing to give up the straight line speed of a modded 335 (not that it is really that much faster.) To each their own but I will never regret trading off my 335 for the M!

I think this topic has been beaten to death so I'm not gonna talk about it.

You say your getting 27 MPG in the M3 and you also have a 6MT? I find this really hard to believe.

[MrHarris]

I just got an e92 m3. On the drive home I was getting 20.4mpg on the highway in 6th. But I did hear the m3's eat a lot of fuel if the car is pretty new.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Now, I know that the M3 is an unbelievable track car, but after taking my 335 to the track a couple times, I'd have to say that it's no slouch.
On top of everything, I'm currently getting 29 mpg on the highway.

I guess what I'm saying is that I was really tempted before I went to the dealer.
-I had my payoff in mind.
-I really wanted to take advantage of the .9%
-I was told that 4500 under sticker is reasonable
-I really thought I was going to drive away in the M3
But I wasn't sold.

If you got the M3 you wouldn't have limp modes every other lap, as you do with your 335i. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172781

My friend tracks his 335i as well. He also gets limp modes all the time.

I would rather track a non-turbo 3er.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by ihyln

I have to ask you, as a moderator do you think that we really needed anothe 335i vs M3 thread?

Although, I do agree that the 335i is somewhat close in performance with a voided warranty but the point of the M3 is completely missed in that regard.

1. Gearing
2. LSD
3. Suspension
4. Last but certainly not least, the leather is a LOT nicer than in the vanilla 3er. I actually dread getting 3er loaners because it feels a lot worse. I think the novillo leather should be standard in all BMWs.

This may or may not add up in your book of being "worth it" but in the end it's up to your price/performance ratio. I could afford a much more expensive car but I don't see the need for it unless I only wanted to show off.

As a moderator, a love for BMW owner, and a previous M owner, I wanted to post my experiences. That's it.
I'm glad for those who posted what they love about the car, and I really apreciate those who understand my concerns.
Again, I can see what is to be loved, but I'm just curious if maybe I didn't drive it long enough.

Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC

If you got the M3 you wouldn't have limp modes every other lap, as you do with your 335i. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172781

My friend tracks his 335i as well. He also gets limp modes all the time.

I would rather track a non-turbo 3er.

I completely agree with you. By adding turbos to any car, there is much more of a complexity and a higher risk of something going wrong.
If you read along in the thread, you will find what was causing my limps, but to save you the time of finding it, it was due to the wastegate actuators sticking. The wastegates were trying to shut to build boost but they couldn't therefore throwing off the duty cycles, which lead to limps.
The only thing that needed to be done was to put some high temp anti seize lubricant on the actuator rod.
Once this was done, the problem was solved.

I'm going back in November with my e46 M3 bud. Let's see what happens then.

Limp modes can be caused by many different things. Unfortunately, the time it happened to me was the time where I decided to track.
A lot of limps are cuased by high oil temps but in my case, the oil temps was perfect the entire day.

[Dascamel]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Congrats man!
I'm curious if you would have made that decision if you had the JB3.
If I was driving a stock 335, I'm sure that the M3 would have been absolutely amazing.

I know what you mean, used to be in your shoes not a JB3 but enough to make it worthwhile. Both are great cars, I still love my 335i, drove it today in fact... When I test drove the M wasn't really impressed, then I went on a ride with an instructor on the track. Night and day difference. Problem is the car is complete overkill on regular streets, to make it shine past a 335i is tough to do on a "regular" daily drive.

[TLud]

Mr. 5, it looks like you've got your current ride modified to the point that it's a little faster in a straight line than the E9X M3 and probably handles almost as well. I don't know how much cash you've sunk into your 335i, but it may not be worth it to you trade it in on an M3.

Where I think you'd still see some improvement in the M3 would be in the exterior appearance, ability to customize your performance settings on the fly, the sound and feel of the NA V-8 pulling all the way up to 8400 rpm, having a full warranty, no limp mode or HPFP issues, availability of DCT (if that's something you're interested in), and ultimately a car that is simply a much better balanced package than the 335i.

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I had an e46 M3 and went to an e90 335.
I've done quite a bit to the 335 and I wanted to see the differences between the two.

This is not a 335 vs M3 thread.
I'm just posting my findings and realizations.

The M3 was extremely nice.
The sound is incredible!
The torque---where is it?

Now, I knew what I was stepping into. I knew that the torque was far less than mine (since I'm getting around 370 ft lbs at the wheels on 91), but I guess I was looking for the quick get up and go, and I was a bit dissapointed.
It seemed to me as if the e46 M3's gears were much lower and reved up a lot quicker than the e90 M3.
As soon as I pulled onto the street, I pressed the M button to take full advantage of the car.

As far as a daily driver, I really have to say that the 335i or ever a 335d would be a much better car.
Now, I know that the M3 is an unbelievable track car, but after taking my 335 to the track a couple times, I'd have to say that it's no slouch.
On top of everything, I'm currently getting 29 mpg on the highway.

I guess what I'm saying is that I was really tempted before I went to the dealer.
-I had my payoff in mind.
-I really wanted to take advantage of the .9%
-I was told that 4500 under sticker is reasonable
-I really thought I was going to drive away in the M3
But I wasn't sold.

I could see that...I mean you have a really nice 335, so I wouldn't expect you to be as compelled as someone like me - coming from an STi.

I don't think you can go wrong either way. What sold me on the M3 was the handling, looks, and the high revving engine. I mean from 0-60, it really isn't any faster than my STi was...which was also significantly lighter and revved faster.

[watrob]

One'a 335 the other is a M3, two different cars and I don't see how you can compare them to each other.

If you want normal everyday DD then buy the 335, if you want a sports/track car get a M3.

And if you want to spend $20k to make it go faster I would spend it on a M3, not a 335, beacuse at the end of the day all you are going to end up with is a 335 as fast as a M3. May as well have bought the M3 to begin with.

Spend $ on a M3 and the 335 is out of the picture again. I would never buy a heavy modded secondhand 335, no extended warranty, no resale, no M.

[Damage Inc]

People need to understand how to "work" the M motors to get the power delivery. You dont just mash the gas like a high torque motor say AMG\335, etc. Whenever somebody drives my car I have to explain how to get the most out of it.

Its like a single malt scotch. An acquired taste, not for everbody. But for those who "get it" its very rewarding

Its very addicting to manage the engine. This is why I find most other cars "boring" vs. an M3. This generation or previous.

[dawgdog]

I owned an e46 M3 for 3 years, a tuned e90 335 (Vishnu V3, coilovers, sways, M-tech kit, BBS rsgts) for 1 1/2 years, and now an e92 M3 DCT for 4 months. All I can say is they are all great cars. My preference are e92 M3 then tuned 335 then e46 M3. You really cannot appreciate the e9x M3 on a short test drive - you need to take it to a track and punish it! This car just gets better and better the more you push it. I almost guarantee you that if you owned the e9x M3 for some length of time you would love it except for the gas mileage. On a road trip with both my tuned 335 (now owned by my brother in law) and my e92 M3 the 335 got 25% better mileage. The e9x M3 gets pretty exciting in the higher revs and on the track the tuned 335 just won't keep up, partially due to the lack of a LSD.

I do understand how you feel, though, because that torque of the tuned 335 is addicting. But the handling, predictable power delivery, and free revving race engine of the e9x M3 is just sublime.

[Singletrack]

Man, all this talk of the high revs makes me want to go drive around all night to break in my car...still have 600 miles to go, then another 1800 to 3k : (

[Race_Doc11]

well said...

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

The ///M is not for everyone. Good luck with your 335i.

[Mr. 5]

I keep seeing all of this "no warranty" talk.
For the record, I still have my warranty.

Keep the comments coming guys.
Persuade me a bit more.

[vgame64]

I suggest you get the E92 M3. After the purchase, swap out the engine with the E60 M5 engine. Following this, get the Dinan stroker kit for the engine. Once all this is completed, supercharge/turbocharge the engine.

Once these modifications are in place, remove the back seat, all carpeting, trim, A/C, radio, passenger seat, and replace your seat with a lightweight Recaro. (A lightweight battery would not hurt either)

Finally, get race driving lessons.

A 3420 lb M3 with around 690 horsepower should give you that torquey feel you want along with that nice ///M feeling.

You asked for opinions on what to do and that is mine. (OK...I'll stop being silly now...)

[watrob]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I keep seeing all of this "no warranty" talk.
For the record, I still have my warranty.

Keep the comments coming guys.
Persuade me a bit more.

You have'nt damaged an engine yet or a gearbox. I know a e46 M3 owner who blew an engine and they found the ECU had been alterred, no warranty.

Now some of the statements made by some forum members here is that they have as much power to weight ratio if not more than a M3, well a 335 does not come statndard like that, so you say that you should be allowed to do that but not void your warranty?

I think BMW wants you to buy a M3 if you want performance & warranty, not hotup a 335 and when something goes wrong expect them to fix it.

I not talking about black matte grill here, I'm talking about go faster bits & pieces and boosting turbo's & ecu's.

[malter2.0]

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

The ///M is not for everyone. Good luck with your 335i.

QFT

[Just_me]

Why are Americans so obsessed with torque?

- Sound
- Highreeving engine
- Handling
- Design
- The mix between sport and everyday use.

And I rather work the engine than having all the power coming instantly.

[watrob]

Originally Posted by Just_me

Why are Americans so obsessed with torque?

- Sound
- Highreeving engine
- Handling
- Design
- The mix between sport and everyday use.

And I rather work the engine than having all the power coming instantly.

Because for the last 40 years they been driving big heavy metal clunking large cubic inch V8's with Holey Carbs that you could put your head threw to see how the valves were wearing which guzzled large amounts of cheap low grade petrol which they thought was an endless supply, now they have religion,

Diesel has finally arrived.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by Just_me

Why are Americans so obsessed with torque?

- Sound
- Highreeving engine
- Handling
- Design
- The mix between sport and everyday use.

And I rather work the engine than having all the power coming instantly.

I didn't realize it was the americans, but I'll tell you why I like torque.
Torque is what gets you down the road.

Believe me, if I didn't like to work the engine myself, I wouldn't have a manual gear box, but when you go from 420 crank ft lbs to 295, you notice it!

[Just_me]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I didn't realize it was the americans, but I'll tell you why I like torque.
Torque is what gets you down the road.

Believe me, if I didn't like to work the engine myself, I wouldn't have a manual gear box, but when you go from 420 crank ft lbs to 295, you notice it!

LoL well muscle cars comes from US

I've driven the C63 as well and a good car it is but for me I prefer the engine in the M3. If I want torque, I buy myself a diesel ups, america do not have bmw diesels

[a burrito]

Mr. 5, i felt the same when i test drove the m3.. Where is the torque???? V8, high revving, big tires/wheels and it should have something to get it moving.. Right?

Truth is, I don't know how great the m3 or how strung out it will be after break in but I do know that in the long run finesse will still win me over than huge gobs of power (i still miss the boxster i had and got sick of my dads sl65 in 3 days!). IMO, i feel that the m3 needs a lot of seat time to appreciate. Its the little things you notice later that make you realize how much you actually love the car. I HATED the e46 m3 when i first drove it. Driving it in and out for 3 months made me absolutely love it.

It's a fact that the m3 is awesome but for a DD does it cut it for you? If not, you might just be a c63 kinda guy and I freaking love the c63 too!