So I tried to place an order today for an M3 coupe

[NHman]

I believe in working with the local companies whenever possible. While I am familiar with the forum sponsors here, I thought that if I could develop a relationship with the CA and by extension the dealership, it could help me going forward. I was up-front stating that I have a good understanding on how the buying process works. Should I decide to lease, I also know how to calculate lease payments and have access to the core information (residual, m.f., acq fee, etc). Simple, I'll treat you (the CA) with professional courtesy and provide me with the same. No games or guesswork. Just provide me with a buy price not including incentives, amount for doc fees and whether I would be paying base on the acquisition fee and money factor (should I lease). Simple or so I thought.

Per the CA's preference, I sent him a spreadsheet with my configuration on a M3 coupe. Essentially loaded with an MSRP of $74,995 and invoice of $69,045. My question, what is my buy price? Response, "MSRP that we get from the build sheet time 93% is your invoice and your price". OK, so therefore you'll sell me the car for $69,745? "Not exactly, 7% is an average mark-up and that is what we use for the price". Further, "Once the order is placed we can show you the invoice we pay and that will be your price". Say what. Why would the numbers change unless the factory puts through an increase which, IMO, is unlikely on a vehicle in the waning months of production. "Well come in and we'll work something out. We want your business". Really?? Well, just give me a real number. It shouldn't require a site visit.

Sorry for the long rant but in my mind this should be simple. Based on a set configuration the values are known. Due to the time-frame (delivery to PCD in May), factory provided incentives and lease programs can not be locked-in. I understand that. It should be today I'll sell you the M3 for X. In addition we charge Y for fees. Any available incentives will be applied to lower X. Simple.

I go through this sales process with the CA knowing that I am buying two vehicles. A M3 for me and X3 for my wife. I sometimes preach to others to remove any emotion out of the process. However, I can see how this can be difficult. End rant.

I know there are good CA's and by extension dealerships out there. From reading the forums, there are good ones associated with this site. I believe that will be my best path forward especially where both vehicles will be via PCD.

[Darth One]

Is there a tl;dr version?

[kokopuffs405]

He is just trying to be upfront with you , BMW does have an invoice that is around 7% , he even goes further by saying he will show you what bmw is charging the dealer when you place the order.

He can't control what BMW charges for invoice so he doesn't want you to be mad if something changes and its not his fault.

When a dealer builds a vehicle than it shows the true "invoice" / "wholesale" . 7% is just a estimate that dealers across the nation use

[TheDeliverator]

Use the configurator from bmwconfig.com

http://bmwconfig.com/BmwConfig/Config.aspx

It will help you figure out what invoice actually is, etc...

If you want a price close to invoice I recommend one of the known M salesmen\women known on the forum. PM me if you want info on my experience.

[White 13]

Invoice price can to be a moving target. MSRP is not. Get price down (or up) from that. It is the price that you are willing to offer that is important.

[MRSSIIM3]

i just got mine from a bimmer dealer in northeast. pm me for details. or bmw norwell in massachusetts. ask for greg dolabany

[Ghetto2315]

Really???

[Bimmr7]

Originally Posted by Ghetto2315

Really???

+1

[NHman]

Originally Posted by TheDeliverator

Use the configurator from bmwconfig.com

http://bmwconfig.com/BmwConfig/Config.aspx

It will help you figure out what invoice actually is, etc...

If you want a price close to invoice I recommend one of the known M salesmen\women known on the forum. PM me if you want info on my experience.

I am familiar with BmwConfig and did use it with my build and creating of the spreadsheet. Thanks though for the info.

[NHman]

Originally Posted by Darth One

Is there a tl;dr version?

No, I went with the unedited version.

Summary, what's my buy price? CA, 7% above invoice. Can you give me an actual number? CA, no but place an order and you'll know. Oh.

[Stronghammer]

I used to think like you, never again. I tried asking simple questions to two CA's at two dealerships. Got the same stupid answers from both. "Come in, sit down, lets talk". So I sent my specs to a bimmerfest board sponsor. Got numbers back in a few hours instead of words. I bought from him the next day. If you want to skip all the BS, PM me and I will tell you who I used. PCD was fun, really glad I did it

[Class-of-2016]

Sent you PM.

[NHman]

Originally Posted by Stronghammer

I used to think like you, never again. I tried asking simple questions to two CA's at two dealerships. Got the same stupid answers from both. "Come in, sit down, lets talk". So I sent my specs to a bimmerfest board sponsor. Got numbers back in a few hours instead of words. I bought from him the next day. If you want to skip all the BS, PM me and I will tell you who I used. PCD was fun, really glad I did it

I am going to give the CA another opportunity but without the site visit. It should be simply enough, here's my configuration, what is the price.

Sorry for the long rant when I opened the tread. I was tired and rambled on a bit. But the bottom line message is the same, simply trying to get a price.

I'll provide an update later on.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by NHman

I am going to give the CA another opportunity but without the site visit. It should be simply enough, here's my configuration, what is the price.

Sorry for the long rant when I opened the tread. I was tired and rambled on a bit. But the bottom line message is the same, simply trying to get a price.

I'll provide an update later on.

I'm not sure who you went with - but I can empathize. I went to three dealers in my area (RI and MA) and the only number they were willing to discuss was the monthly payment.

Instead I've moved my business to the crew at Steve Thomas. Jimmy and Francesca have been exceptionally responsive, honest and transparent. I'd recommend that you reach out.

Either way, good luck with your search.

[ES BMW]

The best car deals I've gotten were always negotiated via email. Just did this with my M3 through David Aviles and a month ago through a semi-local dealer for my wife's X3.

I always give the local dealers a chance but it's usually more headache than it's worth because Miami dealers will NOT negotiate. Put together a reasonable offer using the online tools that we have and start emailing. First person to say, "I can do that", gets the business.

My local dealer's service department provides loaner cars regardless of where the car was purchased and I love going to the Performance Center... win-win!

[JulieDriving]

Hey, I can sympathize. While my experience with my M3 purchase (locally) was exemplary, we are currently trying to buy another vehicle from another brand (3rd vehicle).

The experience felt like "old tactics" vs. "new reality". The new reality at least of how to deal with informed consumers - and serious customers - who have done their homework.

My BMW dealership is current with the new reality, and sealed our M3 deal over email quickly.

This other brand's dealership, following email discussions that have not succeeded, wants us to come in......... So we can do what? Sit and wait outside the "manager's office" while they try to move numbers around to try to get the original number they were seeking? Or worse, try to wear us down with arguments and get us to feel like we wasted our time if we came in and went away with nothing? That's old school.

It's because of the dealerships who have offered such great deals that other (not so great) dealerships offer to go lower.

I like giving local CA's/dealership a chance too. But when they don't take it, then I like to reward those dealerships who made it possible in the first place for us to have a Plan B that we can go to. A Plan B that is often fiscally advantageous to our Plan A anyways.

[NHman]

Originally Posted by JulieDriving

Hey, I can sympathize. While my experience with my M3 purchase (locally) was exemplary, we are currently trying to buy another vehicle from another brand (3rd vehicle).

The experience felt like "old tactics" vs. "new reality". The new reality at least of how to deal with informed consumers - and serious customers - who have done their homework.

My BMW dealership is current with the new reality, and sealed our M3 deal over email quickly.

This other brand's dealership, following email discussions that have not succeeded, wants us to come in......... So we can do what? Sit and wait outside the "manager's office" while they try to move numbers around to try to get the original number they were seeking? Or worse, try to wear us down with arguments and get us to feel like we wasted our time if we came in and went away with nothing? That's old school.

It's because of the dealerships who have offered such great deals that other (not so great) dealerships offer to go lower.

I like giving local CA's/dealership a chance too. But when they don't take it, then I like to reward those dealerships who made it possible in the first place for us to have a Plan B that we can go to. A Plan B that is often fiscally advantageous to our Plan A anyways.

Well stated. By pasting the specific build from the BMWconfig website, I am giving the CA one final opportunity to provide an actual number. Otherwise it will be onto plan B.

[Overlord73]

If you are in the NorthEast why haven't you hit up David Aviles up in Maryland? He will give you a straight up price and it will probably be the lowest you will get. I'm heading out Wed for ED, even with the allocation issues he hooked me up with my E92 M3 pricing was incredible and I'm not joking.

[jqsmooth]

Originally Posted by Overlord73

If you are in the NorthEast why haven't you hit up David Aviles up in Maryland? He will give you a straight up price and it will probably be the lowest you will get. I'm heading out Wed for ED, even with the allocation issues he hooked me up with my E92 M3 pricing was incredible and I'm not joking.

+1

I had a rather unpleasant experience with a local CA. Then, I contacted David. A couple of e-mails and a 10 min phone call, it was done. It just doesn't get any easier than that.

[Crisp]

Originally Posted by Stronghammer

I used to think like you, never again. I tried asking simple questions to two CA's at two dealerships. Got the same stupid answers from both. "Come in, sit down, lets talk". So I sent my specs to a bimmerfest board sponsor. Got numbers back in a few hours instead of words. I bought from him the next day. If you want to skip all the BS, PM me and I will tell you who I used. PCD was fun, really glad I did it

Right, because they don't work the same way. You have to understand the politics behind it.

If you call a local dealer in the North East, 99.9% of the time, he will not give you the bottom line price nor close to it because he doesn't want you taking that number and shopping around with it.

If you e-mail a dealer in, hmm, let's say California, he will give you a much better price because he knows for sure that you're going to shop around with that price locally. Therefor, it's in his best interest to beat all local deals and have you buy the car from him.
It's a win-win because the out-of-town dealer takes a smaller profit per car but sells more cars. The local dealer usually only sells to locals, unless he is also doing the same thing by trying to sell more for less.

However, your local dealer should be able to beat any price (as long as it's realistic) of non-local dealers because it does not look good on them if local customers are buying their cars in different states.

Moral of the story: you have to invest some time and shop around for the best deal. You can't just expect to call a local dealer and get the best number, unless you really know what you're doing or you have done business with that dealership before.

[BMWDavid]

Originally Posted by My E90

The best car deals I've gotten were always negotiated via email. Just did this with my M3 through David Aviles and a month ago through a semi-local dealer for my wife's X3.

I always give the local dealers a chance but it's usually more headache than it's worth because Miami dealers will NOT negotiate. Put together a reasonable offer using the online tools that we have and start emailing. First person to say, "I can do that", gets the business.

My local dealer's service department provides loaner cars regardless of where the car was purchased and I love going to the Performance Center... win-win!

Thank you very much! It makes so much more sense to save people time as well as money.

[BMWDavid]

Originally Posted by Overlord73

If you are in the NorthEast why haven't you hit up David Aviles up in Maryland? He will give you a straight up price and it will probably be the lowest you will get. I'm heading out Wed for ED, even with the allocation issues he hooked me up with my E92 M3 pricing was incredible and I'm not joking.

Thanks Overlord! I'm thrilled for you. The wait is over this week! Enjoy Munich and your new M3