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09-15-2013, 10:31 PM | #89 | ||
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I know the diff in my E46 M3 track car with 103k miles is probably getting near the end of its life. Quote:
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09-15-2013, 11:26 PM | #90 |
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This is the only thing that has everyone in agreement. I am sending my first sample in for analysis with my next oil change and will be watching for excess lead content. But I am not waiting to do this until my car hits 80K miles.
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09-16-2013, 01:34 AM | #91 | |
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Would either mix well with BMW 10W60? Maybe 50/50?? Would it be ok to run either oil instead of the 0W40 you recommend if we do oil changes more frequently? Thanks again for any info. .
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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09-16-2013, 03:20 AM | #92 |
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I get the point about thin oil getting around the journals quicker, but when the engine is stopped and a couple of crank pins come to rest against compression, what happens to the oil on the top of the bearing?
It drains away easier leaving the journal in contact with the top bearing half. Then when it's started from cold, the pin wears the top bearing from it's initial metal to metal contact. That's the reason to stick with 10w60 |
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09-16-2013, 08:26 AM | #93 | |
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BMW picked the 10W60 for it's stability at high temps and not the better protection to bearings on startup. The 0W40 is going to do a much better job on initial startup due to increased flow, and, it is plenty robust and stable to provide adequate protection at higher temps. The 0W40's spec sheet and VOA's show that it is more than up to the task of providing protection up to 150 C (300 degrees Fahrenheit). Since the S65 will go into limp mode before this you should be just fine with the 0W40 in all conditions! |
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09-16-2013, 09:06 AM | #94 | |
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09-16-2013, 12:31 PM | #95 |
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As BMRLVR has posted, there are quite a few shops here in Southern California that are trust worthy in working on the crank assembly to set proper clearances for the engine. This engine is not any different with respect to machine work on the crank in comparison to other engines. The two shops listed below is who I have used time and time again for this type of work without fault. They have the tooling, experience and know how to properly do this type of work and stand behind it. The engine assembly portion of the work has always been done on my own.
-Van Dyne Engineering -Pfaff Engines For engine overhaul and assembly, as mentioned before, this should be left in the hands of experienced engine assemblers with the proper tooling and FACTORY literature for assembly and fastener data. Even changing the rod bearings should be done with extreme care. Can't count how many times I have seen DIY jobs on S54 engines gone bad with respect to rod bearings, even a couple of them didn't last more than 10 miles after rod bearing replacement. Feel free to PM me if any additional information is needed.
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09-16-2013, 12:49 PM | #96 | |
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When the journal is sitting against the bearing on compression for a day or two whilst parked the oil drains out of the bearing. This means there is metal to metal contact for the first revolution of the engine when the start button is pushed. It doesn't matter how quick the pump takes to pressurise, a layer of 0w40 won't protect as well as 10w60 on the first revolution. There is more damage done on the first rev than driving 1000 miles down the freeway with a warm engine and clean oil. |
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09-16-2013, 02:59 PM | #98 | ||
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Just for your information, some of the engines I work on have prelube pumps and others don't. The prelube pumps pressurize the lubrication system in the engines to roughly 5-8PSI before it will crank. The difference in bearing condition between the engines with and without prelube pumps are negligible. Engine heaters have a bigger effect on wear than prelube pumps in my experience! This disproved your theory of thicker oil protecting better on initial start-up or "first revolution" as you put it. |
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09-16-2013, 04:20 PM | #99 | |
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09-16-2013, 06:35 PM | #100 | ||
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09-17-2013, 02:00 AM | #101 | |
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09-17-2013, 11:42 AM | #102 |
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This phenomenon is not rectified with 10W-60 either with the criteria you are referring to where the car sits for a day or two. Either oil will have drained and trickled down. The initial revolutions until the engine fires and runs are not loaded revolutions as combustion is not occurring yet. That initial contact you speak of is not really consequential with respect to the time it takes for the engine and oil reaching operating temperature.
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09-17-2013, 01:24 PM | #103 | |
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Where are you suggesting the wear takes place? Once everything is revolving and the hydrodynamic oil film takes place the bearing won't wear. Why is the top bearing wearing more than the bottom? Clear is clear. Nothing is wearing even if the clearance is only .03mm. BMW designed this engine with some serious R&D facilities and knowledge. (Especially after the S54 problems) Clean 10w60 TWS every 7k miles and careful start procedure are key here. Talk of removing the crank to get a thou ground off is absolute madness (IMO). If a major failure occurs you can pick up a decent engine for less than $5k. If it's just a bearing failure with damaged journals, then you can grind the crank and use .25mm thicker coated bearings. Anyone got any rod bearing failure figures on an S65? At worst it must be a fraction of a percent Far too much paranoia occurring over nothing, but I'm sure that won't go down too well here. Owners should just enjoy one of the best engines ever produced and chill |
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09-17-2013, 01:52 PM | #104 | |
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09-17-2013, 01:58 PM | #105 | |
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09-17-2013, 02:07 PM | #106 |
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You are making it sound like 0W40 vs 10W60 is like water vs molasses. I'm assuming you've seen the 2 side by side right?
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09-17-2013, 02:18 PM | #107 | |
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As suggested before, the rod clearances are simply too tight for S65 bearing diameter. Generally 0.001" per inch of journal diameter is ideal. As for BMW learning from prior mistakes, no they haven't been the best at doing that. The E9x Sub-frame failure is indicative of that as well. A problem that has plagued M3's since the E36 days. Just recently BMW has realized that unitizing the sub-frame on their performance cars is mandatory.
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09-17-2013, 03:04 PM | #108 |
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09-17-2013, 04:41 PM | #109 | |
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I just nabbed this main bearing pic for a simplified illustration and to show the principle. (Yes it's an exaggerated clearance) Journal sitting at rest First revolution where metal to metal surface contact occurs as the journal climbs into motion |
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09-17-2013, 05:09 PM | #110 | ||
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As everyone else has said numerous times, the first single revolution will have NO OIL regardless of what oil you run. The overwhelming majority of wear happens as the oil is warming up. This is where oil choice is important. Can we please just move on now?
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