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11-21-2009, 10:24 AM | #155 | |
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11-21-2009, 10:48 AM | #156 | |
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Enter bike, stage left.
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11-21-2009, 11:45 AM | #157 | |
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Around here? Meaning what exactly? I haven't a clue WTF you're talking about. I'm currently on my 4th Porsche...I know a "little bit" about how they operate. What the hell does your post have to do with driving a 993 on the weekends? I'd think the C6Z06 I drove would be a little bit more of a beast on a little too hot of a turn in dontcha think? I'm just thinking if I was "ok" in operating that car, I might be "ok" with a 993---- unless your obviously "super experienced top driving self" feels otherwise. |
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11-21-2009, 11:55 AM | #159 | |
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11-21-2009, 12:35 PM | #160 | |
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So, you and Bruce are saying that a 993S is more "friskie" than the C6Z06. It was just an asinine comment to make and not germane to the topic at all. You can lose control of any car if you push it too hard. What's the point? And could someone please help me out with the "around here" reference Last edited by alms21; 11-21-2009 at 01:51 PM.. |
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11-21-2009, 01:09 PM | #161 |
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Alms21, that's what I did. I have a 2009 E63 AMG for my DD. All the conveniences and lots of comfort but with still a good bit of fun factor.
My 993 C4S is the car I drive when I want to go for only a drive. Morning runs into the canyons or up the coast at sunset. (Before anyone says "oh, a 4, it's easier to drive," I've owned many a 911 variant. This is my first passive AWD. My last P-car was a 993 C2S) Also DE track events with the PCA on weekends. And that's where you can truly push the car if you are so inclined; otherwise it's still extremely enjoyable to drive the car at a normal street pace. One does not need to constantly push these cars to appreciate their characteristics. I've owned several P-cars from 911 to 964 to 993 to 997 and back to 993. The 993 is a classic and that's part of the enjoyment of owning one. Not everyone needs to be always at the limit. You can learn to appreciate a hand built car for a lot of reasons besides pushing it every time you drive it. Those comments about driving an untamed rear engined car are somewhat valid and I've recommended that newbies to Porsche think twice about rushing out and getting a nanny-less 930 just 'cause they thought it would be cool to have. But for mature adults who know P-cars and aren't buying them for status, it's a different story. I would never tell somebody on Rennlist to not buy a 993 Turbo. That's just being condescending, imho. |
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11-21-2009, 03:23 PM | #162 |
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Alms21,
Sorry that my comments have come across as I was questioning your commitment or skill, but surely you must be aware of how unpredictable the older 911s were. |
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11-21-2009, 09:54 PM | #164 | |
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But yeah, and that's why they aren't exactly DDs, imho. Great weekenders and fun DE track cars. And also that intangible thing about owning something built well and not mass produced. All part of the package. |
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11-22-2009, 06:55 AM | #165 | ||
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Plus it's lag from memory was quite pronouced, unlike the latest turbo engines and if you constantly drive a N/A M3 with it's razor sharp throttle response could give 993 turbo's lag the feeling that it's even more pronouced than it actually is and could prove frustrating on the track or in spirited driving. |
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11-22-2009, 09:36 AM | #166 | ||||
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Really? It was in plain English, I thought - and if you don't know what I'm talking about, why are you so pissed off? Quote:
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11-22-2009, 09:48 AM | #167 | ||||
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Bruce PS - If you re-read my original comments you can understand that they were made about the 993, and were completely factual. There is nothing in those comments that references the driver - and therefore were not about you. Edit: PPS - I just re-read my post, and now understand. I was referring to the generic "you", and not you specifically. Sorry for not being more clear. Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 11-22-2009 at 10:04 AM.. |
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11-22-2009, 01:39 PM | #168 | |
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All this stuff you say (and I will say, and Bruce will say) is common knowledge in the P-car world. And you're repeating it again. That's why I felt maybe it was a bit condescending to repeat it to someone who claims to understand these things. That's all. As an example, you're telling me how my car handles. I know how it handles. (p.s., I still have pronounced steering bump, it's common on the 4s, too.) btw, I'm modifying it into a RWD next month (simple conversion); I like this specific specimen I have now (they all have individual characteristics) but I prefer the RWD of my past versions. But I'll still have the big reds and the turbo body. |
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11-22-2009, 04:04 PM | #169 |
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Sorry you felt my comments were condescending. I know exactly how you car would feel and was simply explaining to the rest of the group that might not know how a C4 behaved. You seem to prefer the rwd chassis where as I much prefer the awd for the reasons I mentioned, but as I have also said on numerous occasions I actually prefer the Boxster/Cayman chassis and handling charactistics much better.
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11-22-2009, 05:49 PM | #170 | |
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Sometimes it gets a bit old when the response to the pre-nanny era 911 cars is always "watch out that car is out to kill you" over and over again. And I'm guilty of it sometimes too, esp. when neophytes say they want a 930, etc.. But in this case, I don't think any of us are P-car neophytes. And yes, as to the AWD vs RWD, I think that for daily street driving the 4 is certainly more forgiving. But on the track and dry climate (here in SoCal) I prefer the 2. Maybe I'm just used to the 2; the 4 definitely has some push to it. Cheers |
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11-22-2009, 06:30 PM | #171 | |
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Thank you. That's exactly what I was saying. I/We know this. There always seems to be the resident "know it all" on every car forum I frequent. Then to top things off, I hear it from a guy that drives an Acura. If I sounded angry, I wasn't. Just annoyed. Look at my signature line to see the Porsches I've owned and now own. No, there are no 993's or 964's there but I've driven both. |
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11-23-2009, 03:11 AM | #172 | |
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Early on I remember reading an article by Derek Bell (I think it was) which covered driving 911s and I pretty much stuck to it for 20 odd years without any major incident so I thank him for that. Stepping back into the 997 after a break of ~ 7 years and it was like nothing had changed, still a great drive in the dry with lots of feel and feedback, setting off the stability control was quite interesting though, definitely a sign that I was getting a bit carried away and it was time to take the car back before I trashed it. |
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11-23-2009, 10:20 AM | #173 | |||
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No, that's not what you were saying. If that's what you were saying, you would've said it. Instead, your somewhat tender psyche interpreted my post as an attack, and you went on a defensive rant.
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You were annoyed? Wow. When you're angry, do you, like, throw stuff? Quote:
Bruce PS - For the forum in general (alms21: Get it?), and while we're talking about earlier Porsches, I remember an interview probably around 15 years ago or so, in which Danny Ongais was asked about his technique for driving his 911 Turbo fast. Ongais was an Indycar driver of some repute, noted, among other things, for being absolutely without fear, or what my fighter pilot son would describe as having "NAFOD" (no apparent fear of death) - something that will get you drummed out of Naval Air if you don't have your wings yet. It's a fine line. In any event, Ongais said: "I don't drive my Porsche Turbo fast. It takes three feet to drive a Porsche Turbo fast." Of course, his fast is different from your fast or my fast, but I absolutely loved that remark. It's one of the reasons why guys love those earlier cars so much. It's the heroic feeling you have when you arrive home for Sunday morning coffee - alive and well. |
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11-23-2009, 01:39 PM | #174 |
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Just for the record, there's a huge contingent of pre-996 owners who do not push these cars on public streets. If you look at the Rennlist demographic you have primarily folks who: 1) have track prepped 991s who are either instructors and/or race in PCA (or SCCA and NASA.) 2) have street 911s and enjoy the ownership pleasure that these cars allow.
It's a much different demographic than say, 6speedonline. Or here on E90Post. Driving and owning these cars is not about being a boy racer. And I'd be the first to suggest someone think twice if that's why they want one. A lot of enjoyment comes with the camaraderie of ownership. Modifying and/or working on them; the history behind them; appreciating the pleasure of driving them; the rarity of certain specimens; PCA events; and going for low key rides together on a weekend, are all part of the package. Conversations about getting tossed into the trees are non-existent, unless it's specific to a track event, etc.. And even then it rarely comes up. For most folks, owing and driving one is not about being a tough guy or any heroics, imho. |
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11-23-2009, 01:46 PM | #175 | |
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11-23-2009, 03:54 PM | #176 | |
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The 911 is like any other car that requires skill to drive quickly, respect it and it will serve you well, but disrespect it at your pearl. |
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