F30 F32 M3 Targets 450ps. More Performance Variants Possible, F32 M3 CSL

[fatpanda]

i dont care wat d next M3 does... just drive your car godamit... the next one will be here once you've stopped driving & exited your current M

[Gearhead999s]

Before commiting to this M3,I have one more cycle of leasing a 2011 e92 which I will do next March when my 08's lease is up.If I do not like the new car I will just keep the 11 for a longer period.I am not a fan of turbo engines in cars used on the track and my wifes 335is just reminds of that fact every time that I drive it.Nice for everyday but very dull when you push it hard!

[oldmanstyle]

Originally Posted by TakeOne

I'm not talking about the straight 6 it replaced, im talking about the current V8 to the NEWER straight six that will come out. The proof is right there.
Like you said, they made a V8 LIGHTER than the previous straight 6, you don't think between 08-2014 they'll figure out how to make the newer six even lighter than the current v8?

don't forget the weight of turbo's and their associated plumbing too

Overall, I seriously doubt the F32 will be much lighter (if any lighter at all) than the E92.

[rich2saint]

I'm not tremendously suprised that they would drop the sedan - and a gt-style would fit the trend BUT - I would think it will be far tougher to pull off the dimensions on a 3er to keep 4-door buyers happy... As Clarkson put it with the sedan: "family man that still has a light but wants to keep it under his bushell"... I need the headroom, larger trunk to go with the extra hatches...

5er/Mercedes/Audi all took the gt to their mid-size, where they had more room to play with the shape - less sacrifice on passenger/cargo room. The 3 is definitely a bigger car than it was - but do they intend to grow it further?
I just think the GT would drop enough of the sedan functionality to put it TOO close to the coupe... Thoughts?

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by Doctor J

Gearing makes a big difference too.

Short gearing is what makes the GTR so fricken fast

who knows maybe they will make it with AWD too?

As Jason said, it's about power to weight - and traction, of course, if you're talking about standing start drag racing.

Once moving, gearing is nearly immaterial.

Bruce

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Sorry sir, the e92 M3 V8 weighs less than the Straight six it replaced. Also Scott said the F32 M3 would have a N55 variant.

The S65 weighs less than the S54, but more than the N54 (and by extension, presumably the N55 as well). I don't have the numbers but they have been posted on this forum in the past (distant past).

Of course if the future "S55" does end up with tri-turbo setup, it will probably weigh a bit more than the N54 as well, and maybe be no lighter than the S65.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The S65 weighs less than the S54, but more than the N54 (and by extension, presumably the N55 as well). I don't have the numbers but they have been posted on this forum in the past (distant past).

Of course if the future "S55" does end up with tri-turbo setup, it will probably weigh a bit more than the N54 as well, and maybe be no lighter than the S65.

If I remember correctly, the N54 weighs 154 lbs less than the S65. As stated above, you have Turbo plumbing to add to the N54 pkg.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by vase330

Hmmmm, something tells me you haven't driven a tuned N54 and that M3 you want so much in a back to back comparison. Have you? And N54 with a tune is free revving too, but I will give you it doesn't make the music an M3 makes, even as it stomps all over the M3. L-a-a-a-a-g... NOT true. As a former owner of an E46 M3 I can tell you objectively these cars aren't as bad as you think they are. The new Turbos are sweet. I went from E46 M3 to E46 330ci due to issues with my M3 and its stupid SMG which I made a huge mistake to fall for. I was seduced by technology, but reality was far from the hype. I once had a Turbo Eclipse that had tons of lag and TQ steer, so was expecting more of the same. Went drove a demo 335, I was SOLD! I grinned so hard, and told the salesman, I like to drive a bargain and pretend I am not so sure, but my grin gives me away. I want once Pronto. Bye bye E46 330ci.

I have a tuned 335i.......short of sounding like a dick, nothing about this post is accurate. Nothing. Tuned 335i is useless on the track; throttle response not even in the same league as even the e46 ///M. Forget coming out of the corners with it.....even with an LSD, the throttle response and high-revs are just not there. Oh, and as far as being free revving? The N54 feels like a weighted pig compared to the way the S65 revs.

The comparisons of 335i to ///M are all inaccurate, ridiculous and makes me laugh. Guess the 335i tuned is a better choice then a 911 too? These comparisons are from people who never go to the track, and never drive their cars hard and properly. I'm sorry, you just can't be more than a Sunday cruiser with your cars and make this comparison....mind you there is nothing wrong with being a sunday cruiser, as I love all of the BMWs including my 335i. But the ///M is meant to fill a need / niche that a tuned 335i can't even come close to. Its why my wife owns an X3, and for every day driving and long distance trips I would rather have a proper 7 or 5, its all about what the purpose of the car is. I'm tired of seeing the 30 threads trying to make this comparison because the 335i and ///M are built for two completely difference purposes......and don't ever forget that.

Cheers,
e46e92

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

If I remember correctly, the N54 weighs 154 lbs less than the S65. As stated above, you have Turbo plumbing to add to the N54 pkg.

The turbo plumbing is built into the manifold and will be included in the engine weight though, right?

154lbs seems high to me. I could be wrong, but I sware I recall there only being about 35 lbs difference between the S54 and S65, and 35 lbs difference between the S65 and N54.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by BMWorNOTHING

Not really....

I'm a huge BMW fan boy. Don't get me wrong the E9X M3 is definitely a beautiful car, with wonderful cornering skills. The interior is also on point. Actually most of everything in that car is on point, except for the engine output. It always seems that the M3 is behind compared to it's competition in the HP and TQ aspect. I'm not sure if BMW does that just because they want people looking for more sheer power to buy an M5 or M6, but those cars are quite large/heavy and considerably more expensive. Prime example of good competition: CTS-V.

Edit: Well apparently mister gthal deleted his comment before I could respond

With no offense intended, 90% of the members on here can't use 414hp correctly, much less 450. Its amusing to me the HP difference, because a properly trained track junkie would spank my ass all over the track if I were in an e92 and he was in an e46.......why? Cause he will just be a better driver, and a better driver beats a better car.

How many times do we have to beat this argument like a dead horse? More HP doesn't mean faster car. The guys wanting more HP and comparing things to the HP output of other cars sounds like a bunch of guys sitting around arguing about whose got the bigger d*** or who has got the hotter GF / wife.

SOunds like you are a huge BMW fan, so think about it, do you really want an unbalanced sledge hammer, High HP, High torque car like a Merc or a Caddy? Or do you want a highly tuned scalpel? My bet is if you serch your soul you will say the latter, thus you probably don't want too much HP, even though it may cause you at first glance to salivate.

Cheeers,
e46e92

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

I have a tuned 335i.......short of sounding like a dick, nothing about this post is accurate. Nothing. Tuned 335i is useless on the track; throttle response not even in the same league as even the e46 ///M. Forget coming out of the corners with it.....even with an LSD, the throttle response and high-revs are just not there. Oh, and as far as being free revving? The N54 feels like a weighted pig compared to the way the S65 revs.

The comparisons of 335i to ///M are all inaccurate, ridiculous and makes me laugh. Guess the 335i tuned is a better choice then a 911 too? These comparisons are from people who never go to the track, and never drive their cars hard and properly. I'm sorry, you just can't be more than a Sunday cruiser with your cars and make this comparison....mind you there is nothing wrong with being a sunday cruiser, as I love all of the BMWs including my 335i. But the ///M is meant to fill a need / niche that a tuned 335i can't even come close to. Its why my wife owns an X3, and for every day driving and long distance trips I would rather have a proper 7 or 5, its all about what the purpose of the car is. I'm tired of seeing the 30 threads trying to make this comparison because the 335i and ///M are built for two completely difference purposes......and don't ever forget that.

Cheers,
e46e92

Originally Posted by e46e92love

With no offense intended, 90% of the members on here can't use 414hp correctly, much less 450. Its amusing to me the HP difference, because a properly trained track junkie would spank my ass all over the track if I were in a e92 and he was in an e46.......why? Cause he will just be a better driver, and a abetter driver beats a better car.

How many times do we have to beat this argument like a dead horse? More HP doesn't mean faster car. The guys wanting more HP and comparing things to the HP output of other cars sounds like a bunch of guys sitting around arguing about whose got the bigger d*** or who has got the hotter GF / wife.

SOunds like you are a huge BMW fan, so think about it, do you really want an unbalanced sledge hammer, High HP, High torque car like a Merc or a Caddy? Or do you want a highly tuned scalpel? My bet is if you serch your soul you will say the latter, thus you probably don't want to much HP, even though it may cause you at first glance to salivate.

Cheeers,
e46e92

do I sense some frustration in your tone today?

[Mako]

Originally Posted by BenTrovato

The next M3 will be an interesting release. I'm sure it will perform well and it will have a striking design. However, given that the CTS-V has re-written the rule book in this segment, the M3 has got to be packing something special. I love the the current M3 and probably the next one but if the price increases, I can't see myself buying one when the caddy is just so tempting.

Well in 2014 it won't be competing with a CTS-V, that will be the M5. by that time (actually by 2012) cadillac will have the ATS-V out which will compete with the German small coupes and sedans. CTS is the same size as M5 but priced $20K less. So the interesting question is, what will the similar size ATS be priced at and what engine will it have? 450 horsepower, lighter smaller, same 0-60 in 4.0 seconds for $50K-$55K loaded?

I don't like the cadillac, looks too boxed to me and the interior isn't up to par wtih the Germans, but how do you compete with a $15K difference in price? I could buy a Civic for the winter that that kind of cash!

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

do I sense some frustration in your tone today?

Touché......

Cheers,
e46e92

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The turbo plumbing is built into the manifold and will be included in the engine weight though, right?

154lbs seems high to me. I could be wrong, but I sware I recall there only being about 35 lbs difference between the S54 and S65, and 35 lbs difference between the S65 and N54.

154lb is incorrect.

This is what Wikipedia has listed:

N54: 195 kg (430 lb)
S54: 217 kg (478 lb)
S65: 202 kg (445 lb)

[HellaFunctional]

Woooow
I think I should hold out for the f32 now..

[I Wanna go Fast!]

How about stock 500 ponies. A measly 450 just won't inspire me to want the new one.

[ES_TRADER]

anyone drove the CTSv? how does it handle compared to the M? Ive always thought american cars handled like boats..alot of rocking...but then again, all their commericals say "German Inspired" handling and suspension...wtf does that mean?

[iatacs19]

Originally Posted by richpuer

anyone drove the CTSv? how does it handle compared to the M? Ive always thought american cars handled like boats..alot of rocking...but then again, all their commericals say "German Inspired" handling and suspension...wtf does that mean?

They drove it around the Nürburgring a few times.

[ES_TRADER]

Originally Posted by iatacs19

They drove it around the Nürburgring a few times.

what was the result? did it make it?

[mkoesel]

Thanks for looking it up; that sounds more like it. I guess it's really almost a wash between the N/A V8 and the turbo I6. So, if the F32 M3 is going to drop any significant weight vs. the E92 M3, its going to have to come from somewhere other than in the engine compartment.

Originally Posted by ChrisK

154lb is incorrect.

This is what Wikipedia has listed:

N54: 195 kg (430 lb)
S54: 217 kg (478 lb)
S65: 202 kg (445 lb)

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Once moving, gearing is nearly immaterial.

If the manufacturer has chosen a fully performance optimized set of gear ratios. Or in other words radical gearing changes to an optimized design will have tremendous negative impact and conversely.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by richpuer

anyone drove the CTSv? how does it handle compared to the M? Ive always thought american cars handled like boats..alot of rocking...but then again, all their commericals say "German Inspired" handling and suspension...wtf does that mean?

I test drove the CTS-V just for the heck of it. Nice power, nice handling, and the fit and finish is worlds better than any caddy from years past.
...but it just doesn't have the feel of a BMW. I can't put it into words.