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11-18-2009, 10:48 AM | #89 |
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I just prefer to debate the subject matter and keep things more grown up. I know I probably come across as big headed and a smart arse but on most subjects that I chose to discuss I generally know quite a bit about them or occasionally know more than I let on........cough cough GTS.
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11-18-2009, 10:50 AM | #90 | |
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-SZ |
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11-18-2009, 10:55 AM | #91 | |
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11-18-2009, 10:59 AM | #92 |
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I think the Z4M has TOO MUCH traction to have fun with in the first place(dry roads), and the interior is a bit claustrofobic.
I drove one for a weekend. And those things prevented me from buying one. All things are IMHO! |
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11-18-2009, 11:14 AM | #94 | |
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11-18-2009, 04:18 PM | #95 |
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11-18-2009, 04:37 PM | #96 | |
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If people view it as a girl's car then I would quite happily wear a skirt and paint my nails. But seriously all small coupes/roadsters appear to be viewed this way and no amount of butching up will change their opinion of them. |
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11-18-2009, 04:40 PM | #97 | |
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wrong. z4m coupe, 350z, z06, none looks like chicks' cars. cayman/boxters are. I would mind you wearing skirt and paint your nails, LOL |
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11-18-2009, 04:47 PM | #98 | |
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As for shift@red, can we please stop the 'Cayman S is the best blah-blah-blah' already. I got it already - the Cayman S is the best fill-in-the-blank you ever had. Yes we know your view: Porsche the best / BMW not the best. I got it already.
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11-18-2009, 05:03 PM | #99 | |
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11-18-2009, 05:32 PM | #101 |
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Either that or the biggest steaming pile of fanboy exhaust ever.
Last edited by BimmerBoomer; 11-18-2009 at 05:52 PM.. |
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11-18-2009, 07:44 PM | #102 |
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yeah, I got disgusted by fanboism/immaturity of some members and decided not to participate any longer.
carry on...
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11-19-2009, 04:59 AM | #103 | |
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Tsukuba 1:05.817 1:08.077 (semi wet) Hockenheim Short 1:14.3 1:13.9 Laguna Seca 1:42.964 1:43.0 Autozeitung test track 1:40.1 1:40.6 Contidrom 1:35.41 1:36.52 (ESP on) Rockingham 1:25.58 1:37.07 (wet) Anglesey National 1:03.8 1:04.1 1655kgs 1450kgs 420hp 320hp I thought I should include other factors that need to be heard before dismissing the Cayman. The M3 has 3.94Kg/HP compared to the Cayman's 4.53Kg/HP, that's an advantage of 15% which as you showed dramatically improves the M3's straight line acceleration, and yet in almost all the tests it's only splitting hairs between them on the track. The very fact that it was only 1 seconds slower around the N-ring proves how much better it is at cornering and coping with the bumpy conditions of normal roads. I dismissed the times in red mainly because of either differing track conditions or as in one case the ESP was left on. I also would like to add that I only know for sure that the Sportauto times for Hockenheim and N-ring were conducted with a Cayman S equipped with both PDK and LSD. But none of this proves anything other than the Cayman even with a serious performance disadvantage can lap equally as quick, proving the point that else where on the lap other than in acceleration the Cayman is superior. |
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11-19-2009, 06:04 AM | #105 | |
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The fact than you can actually compare an M3 with the 997.2 S shows what a performance bargain the M3 is...or that Porsche seriously need to up their game. |
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11-19-2009, 06:38 AM | #107 | |
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P.S. Regarding the other times and the comparisons between the Cayman and 997C2S to that of the M3, you also seriously need to keep in mind that on the one true track which bares more than just a slight similarity to a proper road (N-ring) the two Porsche cars excel, when you consider the length of the straights that this course has and the advantage the M3 has in acceleration compared to the Cayman it puts into perspective just how superior the Cayman is else where on the track. |
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11-19-2009, 06:57 AM | #108 | |
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Last edited by SenorFunkyPants; 11-19-2009 at 07:30 AM.. |
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11-19-2009, 08:26 AM | #109 |
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Ok. So here's my take. You guys are taking BMW's best car, the M3, which is the best handling and most nimble car they make. Not the fastest in a straight, but not too far off.
Now, youre comparing it to Porsche's entry level 911, which is cant even beat. Sure it may be a driver's race in a straight, but the M3 doesnt have the grip, feel, or track prowess the 911 has. The M3 won't ever be able to compete with cars like the 911 Turbo, GT3/GT3RS or GT2, those cars are in a whole other game. As for a CaymanS, and Boxster S (since they're almost one), the M3 may be faster in a straight line, but IMO just take touch the fact that the Cayman & Boxster are some of the best handling cars out there, and again, are Porsche's lowest offerings in the whole sports car line. I mean, the CaymanS did win BEST DRIVER'S car two years in a row, and beat out the R8, which is also quite the drivers car as well as a few other few notworthy cars, and something the M3 couldnt have won, if you ask me. Now, its funny, because most of the E9X M3 guys would probably say 'I would take the M3 over a GTR'. Well, fact is, the GTR spanks the M3 up and down, but the M3 would be argued to still have more feel and be more fun. Well thats what the Cayman/Boxster are, just flat out more fun IMHO and have a much more connected feel that becomes near one with the driver. Senorfunkypants: Your arguement about track times is very flawed. You say the 997S isnt much faster than an M3 on the track, yet the 997S is significantly faster on every single track. Heres the fastest laps comparo: Nordschleife 8:05 7:50 Tsukuba 1:05.817 1:05.350 Hockenheim Short 1:14.3 1:13.4 Vairano Handling Course 1:20.910 1:18.048 Autozeitung test track 1:40.1 1:39.1 Balocco 2:56.51 2:55.51 SportAuto wet handling test 1:32.4 1:30.5 Camden Airport 1:13.40 1:11.69 Anglesey National 1:03.8 1:03.2 Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours 1:27.40 (19"rims) 1:24.57 Im not sure if youre a tracker or not, but a 2 second lead on a lap that is only a minute and thirty seconds is a major difference. And most of the leads the 997S has are very big. 15 seconds on the "Ring, and various multi-second leads on nearly all other tracks. Both car were done with Cup+ tires. The M3 CSL time you mention was done on Pilot Sports Cups, not Cup+ tires. The former are much more grippy and better for the track. Now, you say that the M3 is much faster than a Cayman S PDK, yet the leads the M3 has over the Cayman S are not nearly as big as those the 997S has over the M3. Nordschleife 8:05 8:06 Tsukuba 1:05.817 1:08.077 (semi wet) Hockenheim Short 1:14.3 1:13.9 Laguna Seca 1:42.964 1:43.0 Autozeitung test track 1:40.1 1:40.6 Contidrom 1:35.41 1:36.52 (ESP on) Rockingham 1:25.58 1:37.07 (wet) Anglesey National 1:03.8 1:04.1 Not only that, the m3 has a better power to weight ratio than the cayman S has. So how is it that the 997S isnt that much faster than the M3, in your words, but the M3 is much faster than a Cayman S when the Cayman S comes very close on a lot of tracks, and is even faster on some?? |
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11-19-2009, 08:34 AM | #110 | |
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The time achieved by the 997.2 S was not with the original CUP tyres but the newer and slightly less grippy CUP+. This was the same rubber that the M3's time was achieved with, likewise it was also equipped with adaptive suspension (same as the M3 did) and LSD (also on the M3). All we are confirming here is that we both agree that the M3 is great and the Porsche is a bit quicker, both things that I have already said and continue to say. |
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