My stock audio sounds like CRAP... what can I buy to improve it?

[Babaganush]

Originally Posted by Technic

Congratulations...

Check this diagram of the rear panels: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...95&hg=51&fg=50

Check first if by just removing the speaker grilles you can remove the speakers. In the diagram it looks like there are some screws in the mid speaker hole once you remove the grille. Use a plastic trim removal tool to avoid messing up the leather.

If that doesn't work then the panel itself has to be removed. It will help a lot if you remove first the rear seat bottoms to clear the rear panels removal; just pull them up hard. There are 4 screws behind the panel trim piece and the rest seems to be clips around the panel itself. So by removing the trim you will be set to remove the panel screws and then pull out the panel.

Removing the grills in the back will not allow the speakers to be removed so it looks like the panel has to come off. I decided to tackle that later and focused on the the doors first. Here is what I found after removing the passenger door panel piece.....there is no room for the MB Quart crossover to mount anywhere and the mid speaker in the door has different mounting holes than what's on the MB Quart. I think I found a solution to the crossover by simply installing it in the fold out glove box of the door and running the speaker wires from there (pretty well hidden). My question is how in the heck do you mount the mid speaker when the mounting holes don't line up? Haven't looked at the tweeter yet.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Babaganush

Removing the grills in the back will not allow the speakers to be removed so it looks like the panel has to come off. I decided to tackle that later and focused on the the doors first. Here is what I found after removing the passenger door panel piece.....there is no room for the MB Quart crossover to mount anywhere and the mid speaker in the door has different mounting holes than what's on the MB Quart. I think I found a solution to the crossover by simply installing it in the fold out glove box of the door and running the speaker wires from there (pretty well hidden). My question is how in the heck do you mount the mid speaker when the mounting holes don't line up? Haven't looked at the tweeter yet.

I think that you will find some space in the door panel cavity behind the storage compartment bulge if you remove the crossover housing and "shrink wrap" the circuitry.

For the speakers you will need to either make a custom 3-hole spacer in MDF (1/4"), some custom metal clips to hold the speaker or even a Dynamat "sandwich" works, where you use Dynamat Extreme sheet to hold the speaker to the mount. Two sheets (one sheet in the door hole and one sheet holding the speaker) can be used to really seal the speaker front from its rear.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Babaganush

Removing the grills in the back will not allow the speakers to be removed so it looks like the panel has to come off. I decided to tackle that later and focused on the the doors first. Here is what I found after removing the passenger door panel piece.....there is no room for the MB Quart crossover to mount anywhere and the mid speaker in the door has different mounting holes than what's on the MB Quart. I think I found a solution to the crossover by simply installing it in the fold out glove box of the door and running the speaker wires from there (pretty well hidden). My question is how in the heck do you mount the mid speaker when the mounting holes don't line up? Haven't looked at the tweeter yet.

Here's a thread that shows how they mounted an aftermarket speaker in the stock door location.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1058251

[aus]

Good stuff here. Thanks Technic.

[Babaganush]

Had the stereo shop make a plastic bracket/ring and bolted the MB Quart to it...fits perfectly. Tweeter also fits in the stock enclosure.

Here are the problems once I put the MB Quart in the passenger side:

1. Crossover is way too big even if you take it out of the housing. Nowhere to mount it. I ended up puting it in the door glove box and ran the wires behind it into the door. Works but not really what I wanted to do.

2. Most concerning....the sound level is way down from stock. The driver side and rears are still stock and are WAY louder than the new MB Quart in the passenger door. MB Quart seems to be less efficient and don't seem to sound that much better....they seem to actually be worse. I'll double check all of the connections tonight but is this normal? Do I simply just need to turn the gains up the EQ? By the way, while the door panel was open, I connected the stock speakers and then switched to the MB Quart back and forth just to make sure it wasn't a connection causing the problem but it still seems that the MB Quarts are struggling.

3. The door install is definitely not for a newbie. I would suggest spending the $ for your local shop to install. Just my opinion.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Babaganush

Had the stereo shop make a plastic bracket/ring and bolted the MB Quart to it...fits perfectly. Tweeter also fits in the stock enclosure.

Here are the problems once I put the MB Quart in the passenger side:

1. Crossover is way too big even if you take it out of the housing. Nowhere to mount it. I ended up puting it in the door glove box and ran the wires behind it into the door. Works but not really what I wanted to do.

2. Most concerning....the sound level is way down from stock. The driver side and rears are still stock and are WAY louder than the new MB Quart in the passenger door. MB Quart seems to be less efficient and don't seem to sound that much better....they seem to actually be worse. I'll double check all of the connections tonight but is this normal? Do I simply just need to turn the gains up the EQ? By the way, while the door panel was open, I connected the stock speakers and then switched to the MB Quart back and forth just to make sure it wasn't a connection causing the problem but it still seems that the MB Quarts are struggling.

3. The door install is definitely not for a newbie. I would suggest spending the $ for your local shop to install. Just my opinion.

1) I was expecting that the Coupe door panels space was going to be bigger than the Sedan's, as in my door panel I can fit a Diamond Audio HEX crossover. And that sucker is big...

2) That MB Quartz crossover has a two level output adjustment, have you tried it? The front OEM speakers are also connected in parallel, so you need to make sure that you also disconnected the OEM tweeter before connecting the MB crossover (you need to add new wiring from the crossover to the new mid and tweeter). Could be an impedance mismatch the reason of the lower output.

According to MB Quartz this set has a sensitivity of 90dB.

3) Definitely.

I ordered a pair of CDT Audio SatNet 400 2-way crossovers (closeout at eBay for $50 shipped a pair: http://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-of-CDT-Audi...1%7C240%3A1318 ) to test them with my front door Premium Audio speakers. If they are like the other CDT Audio crossovers that I have bought for applications like this (for non-CDT Audio speakers) they should be small enough to fit inside the Sedan's door and their construction quality and sound performance should be first rate.

Those could be a great replacement for those MB Quartz crossovers, in size, quality and performance.

[Babaganush]

Originally Posted by Technic

1) I was expecting that the Coupe door panels space was going to be bigger than the Sedan's, as in my door panel I can fit a Diamond Audio HEX crossover. And that sucker is big...

2) That MB Quartz crossover has a two level output adjustment, have you tried it? The front OEM speakers are also connected in parallel, so you need to make sure that you also disconnected the OEM tweeter before connecting the MB crossover (you need to add new wiring from the crossover to the new mid and tweeter). Could be an impedance mismatch the reason of the lower output.

According to MB Quartz this set has a sensitivity of 90dB.

3) Definitely.

I ordered a pair of CDT Audio SatNet 400 2-way crossovers (closeout at eBay for $50 shipped a pair: http://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-of-CDT-Audi...1%7C240%3A1318 ) to test them with my front door Premium Audio speakers. If they are like the other CDT Audio crossovers that I have bought for applications like this (for non-CDT Audio speakers) they should be small enough to fit inside the Sedan's door and their construction quality and sound performance should be first rate.

Those could be a great replacement for those MB Quartz crossovers, in size, quality and performance.

Yeah, not much room in the coupe's door.

You mentioned two level output connections....I could see the crossover seems to have three different connections for the tweeter -6db, -3db, 0db. I connected to the 0db and even tried the other two but no improvement. OEM stuff is all disconnected and I ran new wiring. I'll double check all the wire connections again but am pretty sure it's all correct and in phase.

Thanks for the info on the other crossover. That might be the ticket.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Babaganush

Yeah, not much room in the coupe's door.

You mentioned two level output connections....I could see the crossover seems to have three different connections for the tweeter -6db, -3db, 0db. I connected to the 0db and even tried the other two but no improvement. OEM stuff is all disconnected and I ran new wiring. I'll double check all the wire connections again but am pretty sure it's all correct and in phase.

Thanks for the info on the other crossover. That might be the ticket.

That issue of the MB Quartz sounding quieter than the OEM's is not good... are both MB Quartz drivers sounding quieter than the OEM mid and tweeter? How you actually connected these drivers when you did your test, to the MB crossover or directly to the amp inputs? Did you try both the MB Quartz sets (crossovers and drivers) and both sounded quieter than the OEM component set?

IMO, it is better to find out what's going on before dumping money into this. With the new power and the published sensitivity of these speakers they should sound much better and louder than the OEM's without too much effort.

[Babaganush]

Originally Posted by Technic

That issue of the MB Quartz sounding quieter than the OEM's is not good... are both MB Quartz drivers sounding quieter than the OEM mid and tweeter? How you actually connected these drivers when you did your test, to the MB crossover or directly to the amp inputs? Did you try both the MB Quartz sets (crossovers and drivers) and both sounded quieter than the OEM component set?

IMO, it is better to find out what's going on before dumping money into this. With the new power and the published sensitivity of these speakers they should sound much better and louder than the OEM's without too much effort.

OK. I've gone through this over and over and as crazy as this sounds, the MB Quarts are just not up to the sound of the stock speakers. Here is my checklist:

1. Confirmed MB Quart RUA210 in 4ohm model
2. Confirmed not crossover issue. Tried both crossovers with same problem and even swapped out every + and - just to make sure.
3. Confirmed not specific speaker issue since I swapped both MB Quart tweeters and mids with same issue.
4. Confirmed it's not a connection issue. From the OEM speaker wires (blue/black positive and blue/brown negative), I wired to the crossover "in" positive and negative and then connected the mid and tweeter to each of the positive and negative mid and tweeter of the crossover. Again, the sound is there but it sounds muted (the highs are higher from the tweeter yet muted and the mids are working but they sounded as they are muted...especially vocals). When I hook up the stock speakers to that same OEM speaker wire, it's much louder especially with the vocals.

One thing I noticed that's strange is the stickers on the MB Quart mids say 4ohm and the tweeter says 6ohm on the actually speaker itself. The box and specs state that it's 4ohm speakers. That still doesn't explain why the mids sound so terrible.

Finally, I connected the MB Quarts in parallel without a crossover. No change...they sound exactly the same as if I was using the the crossover.

I'm tempted to go buy another set of speakers and try them out or simply put the OEM back and be done with it. What a nightmare.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Babaganush

OK. I've gone through this over and over and as crazy as this sounds, the MB Quarts are just not up to the sound of the stock speakers. Here is my checklist:

1. Confirmed MB Quart RUA210 in 4ohm model
2. Confirmed not crossover issue. Tried both crossovers with same problem and even swapped out every + and - just to make sure.
3. Confirmed not specific speaker issue since I swapped both MB Quart tweeters and mids with same issue.
4. Confirmed it's not a connection issue. From the OEM speaker wires (blue/black positive and blue/brown negative), I wired to the crossover "in" positive and negative and then connected the mid and tweeter to each of the positive and negative mid and tweeter of the crossover. Again, the sound is there but it sounds muted (the highs are higher from the tweeter yet muted and the mids are working but they sounded as they are muted...especially vocals). When I hook up the stock speakers to that same OEM speaker wire, it's much louder especially with the vocals.

One thing I noticed that's strange is the stickers on the MB Quart mids say 4ohm and the tweeter says 6ohm on the actually speaker itself. The box and specs state that it's 4ohm speakers. That still doesn't explain why the mids sound so terrible.

Finally, I connected the MB Quarts in parallel without a crossover. No change...they sound exactly the same as if I was using the the crossover.

I'm tempted to go buy another set of speakers and try them out or simply put the OEM back and be done with it. What a nightmare.

In paper this MQ Quart set should be great for the price (nice construction, sensitivity, frequency response, power handling), but it looks like the price itself tells otherwise (eBay knockoff?).

All 4" OEM component sets in the base system are supposed to be rated at 2 ohms, but I don't know if it is because the mid and the tweeter are 4 ohms each connected in parallel or some combination of impedances betwen the two that also measure 2 ohms connected in parallel. The PDX-5 will output the same power at 2 ohms as at 4 ohms, so there should be no difference in sound level between the OEM mid and the MB mid connected to the PDX-5 output, unless we are talking about more than 4 ohms in the MB Quart mid or less than 2 ohm at the OEM mid.

This set -with the add on woofer kit- was installed in a MKV GTI in this forum: http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showpo...38&postcount=9 and the OP mentioned that this MB set required plenty of power to sound good. But that should not be not an issue here as that PDX-5 is underrated so it is actually outputting some 100W RMS at channels 1-4.

[808MGuy]

I still think this is a level matching issue and all you need to do is make some adjustments to your gains on the EQ and the amps. Once you get the levels optimized you should be able to get the fronts up to a level that will match/surpass the OEM rears. In my many years of install car audio systems, this is a common condition whenever you combine OEM and aftermarket equipment in the same system. The remaining OEM speakers always seem like they are louder so you either have to fade off the OEM or turn up the gain on the aftermarket.

All MB Quart (in fact almost all manufacturers) tweeters are 6 ohm. Your amp still sees a 4 ohm load because that crossover that comes with the MB Quarts speakers has an impedence matching network in it that makes sure your amp sees a 4 ohm load even though the the mid is 4 ohms and the tweeter is 6 ohms. This is also common of pretty much every aftermarket component speaker system on the market.

If you feel you have hit the wall in your attempt to make this work, seek out an experienced tuner that can help you level match and EQ the system. I think once everything is all dialed in, you'll feel much better about the system you have.

[Babaganush]

Originally Posted by HIS4

I still think this is a level matching issue and all you need to do is make some adjustments to your gains on the EQ and the amps. Once you get the levels optimized you should be able to get the fronts up to a level that will match/surpass the OEM rears. In my many years of install car audio systems, this is a common condition whenever you combine OEM and aftermarket equipment in the same system. The remaining OEM speakers always seem like they are louder so you either have to fade off the OEM or turn up the gain on the aftermarket.

All MB Quart (in fact almost all manufacturers) tweeters are 6 ohm. Your amp still sees a 4 ohm load because that crossover that comes with the MB Quarts speakers has an impedence matching network in it that makes sure your amp sees a 4 ohm load even though the the mid is 4 ohms and the tweeter is 6 ohms. This is also common of pretty much every aftermarket component speaker system on the market.

If you feel you have hit the wall in your attempt to make this work, seek out an experienced tuner that can help you level match and EQ the system. I think once everything is all dialed in, you'll feel much better about the system you have.

You are spot on. The MB Quart speakers are very power hungry. I had to turn the gains way up on the fronts (MB Quarts) while adjusting the lower frequencies down.....the little woofer was really struggling. Adjusted the rears (OEMs) and subs (SW-8s) and it's all starting to come together especially at high volumes. Still need to do some fine tuning but wow, what a difference. The other thing I noticed, the MB quart mid sounds terrible until it's mounted to the door....the sounds seems to reflect much better once they are enclosed in the door versus when I was comparing them back to back to the OEM while they were out of the door.

By the way, I followed the EQ instructions on setting the levels. If I'm reading them correct, seems that you leave the amp gains at MIN and then adjust the EQ input and output gains. Seems strange not to mess with the amp gains but I guess that's a good thing since I really don't feel like having to pull the trunk carpet out again...what a PIA.

I still need to mount the other set of MB Quarts to the back but I think I'm going to give it a break for a while. Been spending more time on this than I like.

Again, thanks guys for all your help. Couldn't have done it with out 'ya.

[808MGuy]

I'm happy to hear its coming together. As far as the gain setting is concerned, the EQ manual tells you to set the amp gains at minimum because that would be the ideal situation. Leaving the gains down on the amp lowers the noise floor of the system (that background hiss or sometimes a whine that is heard usually at very low volumes). Sometimes you cannot leave the amp gains at minimum though because you'll get to a point where turning up the EQ gains anymore will result in clipping the signal. Then you have to compensate buy backing off on the EQ gains and turning up the amp gains a little. Its all give and take here and eventually you find the sweet spot. If the EQ doesn't have clipping indicators and you don't have an oscilliscope to see the clipped waveform, the rule of thumb is not to get to the point to where you are turning the gains on the EQ all the way up. If you're getting near that, compensate a little with the amp gain instead.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Babaganush

You are spot on. The MB Quart speakers are very power hungry. I had to turn the gains way up on the fronts (MB Quarts) while adjusting the lower frequencies down.....the little woofer was really struggling. Adjusted the rears (OEMs) and subs (SW-8s) and it's all starting to come together especially at high volumes. Still need to do some fine tuning but wow, what a difference. The other thing I noticed, the MB quart mid sounds terrible until it's mounted to the door....the sounds seems to reflect much better once they are enclosed in the door versus when I was comparing them back to back to the OEM while they were out of the door.

By the way, I followed the EQ instructions on setting the levels. If I'm reading them correct, seems that you leave the amp gains at MIN and then adjust the EQ input and output gains. Seems strange not to mess with the amp gains but I guess that's a good thing since I really don't feel like having to pull the trunk carpet out again...what a PIA.

I still need to mount the other set of MB Quarts to the back but I think I'm going to give it a break for a while. Been spending more time on this than I like.

Again, thanks guys for all your help. Couldn't have done it with out 'ya.

Nice...

[Babaganush]

After living with the system now and doing a BUNCH of adjusting, I'm just not 100% happy with the MB Quarts. I can get everything to sound really great at low volumes but once I start cranking up the volume, the sound is just way too bright and harsh and I'm constantly having to readjust the settings. I like to listen to my music pretty loud and the MB Quarts are just too harsh and the mids REALLY struggle.

I think I'm going to replace the MB Quarts with something warmer such as the Morel Dotech Ovations and see if that gets me what I want.

However, the Earthquake SW-8s are simply amazing. I absolutely love them!!!

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Babaganush

After living with the system now and doing a BUNCH of adjusting, I'm just not 100% happy with the MB Quarts. I can get everything to sound really great at low volumes but once I start cranking up the volume, the sound is just way too bright and harsh and I'm constantly having to readjust the settings. I like to listen to my music pretty loud and the MB Quarts are just too harsh and the mids REALLY struggle.

I think I'm going to replace the MB Quarts with something warmer such as the Morel Dotech Ovations and see if that gets me what I want.

However, the Earthquake SW-8s are simply amazing. I absolutely love them!!!

You're using the passive crossovers that came with the set right? If you are, then I know exactly what you're talking about. I used to have MB Q series components in my last car and the sound was very in your face. The mid was mounted even lower on the door in my last car but the problem was that the tweeter is mounted in almost the exact same spot high on the door. The factory crossover point the MB Quart uses in their passive crossover is pretty low (I think it's 2.5 kHz) which causes some of the upper midrange to play from the tweeter and the sound can be quite harsh at high volumes. I got around this by removing the passive crossovers from the system and implementing a full active system so I could set the crossover points to whatever I wanted. Once I did that, I had the mid playing up to 5 kHz and the tweeter taking over at 6.3 kHz. The sound was much smoother because all the vocals were handled by the mid and the tweeter just had to play the high frequency details. Eventually I ended up changing that mid to something else because the MB Quart just could not put out any midbass.

Good luck in your search to find something better.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Babaganush

After living with the system now and doing a BUNCH of adjusting, I'm just not 100% happy with the MB Quarts. I can get everything to sound really great at low volumes but once I start cranking up the volume, the sound is just way too bright and harsh and I'm constantly having to readjust the settings. I like to listen to my music pretty loud and the MB Quarts are just too harsh and the mids REALLY struggle.

I think I'm going to replace the MB Quarts with something warmer such as the Morel Dotech Ovations and see if that gets me what I want.

However, the Earthquake SW-8s are simply amazing. I absolutely love them!!!

Check your PM... I think that I can help with that.

[ismelllikepoop]

i've read that the quart's tend to be pretty harsh. do you get any rattle with the earthquakes?

[Babaganush]

Originally Posted by ismelllikepoop

i've read that the quart's tend to be pretty harsh. do you get any rattle with the earthquakes?

no rattle from the earthquakes.....all that rattles is my ass and feet.

[Babaganush]

Originally Posted by HIS4

You're using the passive crossovers that came with the set right? If you are, then I know exactly what you're talking about. I used to have MB Q series components in my last car and the sound was very in your face. The mid was mounted even lower on the door in my last car but the problem was that the tweeter is mounted in almost the exact same spot high on the door. The factory crossover point the MB Quart uses in their passive crossover is pretty low (I think it's 2.5 kHz) which causes some of the upper midrange to play from the tweeter and the sound can be quite harsh at high volumes. I got around this by removing the passive crossovers from the system and implementing a full active system so I could set the crossover points to whatever I wanted. Once I did that, I had the mid playing up to 5 kHz and the tweeter taking over at 6.3 kHz. The sound was much smoother because all the vocals were handled by the mid and the tweeter just had to play the high frequency details. Eventually I ended up changing that mid to something else because the MB Quart just could not put out any midbass.

Good luck in your search to find something better.

Yes, I'm using the crossover that came with the set. You're exactly right, it's way too much in your face and the midbass sucks. At low volumes they sound amazing but the minute you turn them up you find it almost too painful to listen to. What's interesting is I still have the stock speakers in the back and if you fade from back to front (with the subs unplugged), it's amazing how different they are. MB's have much better performance in the highs but I think the stock speakers actually play the mids better. I think the MBs are perfect for someone that listens to low to medium volume but they just don't perform well when cranked up.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Babaganush

Yes, I'm using the crossover that came with the set. You're exactly right, it's way too much in your face and the midbass sucks. At low volumes they sound amazing but the minute you turn them up you find it almost too painful to listen to. What's interesting is I still have the stock speakers in the back and if you fade from back to front (with the subs unplugged), it's amazing how different they are. MB's have much better performance in the highs but I think the stock speakers actually play the mids better. I think the MBs are perfect for someone that listens to low to medium volume but they just don't perform well when cranked up.

They are very capable speakers but needs tons of adjustment to sound good. Unfortunately, that level of adjustment is not available to you with the equipment you have.

[Babaganush]

Update.

After numerous attempts to fine tune the MB Quarts and even trying a different crossover (thanks Technic!!!), I finally bit the bullet and ended up upgrading the MB Quarts and went with the Morel Dotech Ovation 4" in the front. Just got them installed and WOW!!!! I haven't even fine tuned the EQ and these speakers are a huge step above the MB Quarts!

The highs are much warmer and you can actually turn the volume way up without any ear piercing pain but the biggest difference is the mids....they simply can handle much more power and produce the lower frequencies much better than the MBs with no distortion...it's not even in the same league. I had the EQ turned all the way down on the lower frequencies for the MBs and they were still distorting, but with the Morels, I've turned the lower frequencies back up and it's sounding great! Again, I really like the Morels and highly recommend them over the MBs. Finally, I think I'm just about done. Just need to figure out if I even want to bother with the rear OEM speakers....might have the demote the MBs to the rear for now.