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04-24-2018, 10:25 PM | #1 |
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Cliche... E46 M3 vs E92 M3 Thread
Hi all! I'm somewhat regular here in the e9x track group as you guys seem to be the most active and helpful. A little background to fill y'all in on where I'm coming from with this question...
My 2 current cars:
- E46 M3 SMG
Does anyone on here have experience on both e9x m3 & E46 m3 chassis on track? Might be a bit biased on this forum but I wanted to get some feedback from the group. ** My next chassis will be gutted and properly caged so I want to do it right from the onset. Thanks!
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04-25-2018, 12:53 AM | #2 |
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redpriest is going to have a ton of good info. he has a mt f82 m4, a dct e92 m3 that went from a street car into a racecar, and a mt e46 m3 that was built when he bought it. he has a ton of track seat time in each, and knows what he is doing.
spxx, have you driven an e9x m3 yet? these cars are super reliable and have a great attitude on an off track. i don't have any experience in an e46, but i have observed them in that environment. most of the e46's i have encountered aren't terribly fast in the straights. there was one e46 i encountered that was gutted. i don't know what engine mods he had, but the thing absolutely blew my doors off in the straights and in the corners at auto club (big roval). i don't know how much money it took to get to that point... i guess the point i'm trying to make is that i see more e9x m3's that WOW me for being quick than e46's. of course, this is separate from how a car will make you "feel", which is what the e46 is typically praised for. i feel like the e9x has been staying relevant and competitive at the track because it is a good platform and has good power right out of the box. catalyst removal and a tune will only help. i don't think there is a significant difference in consumables between the two.
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04-25-2018, 08:47 AM | #3 |
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I guess it would come down to what your goals and expectations are here -- can you elaborate? Both of those cars are known for their track prowess and have a huge aftermarket.
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04-25-2018, 09:06 AM | #4 | |
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Then I bought an E92 M3 and have done many track days on that. Now I'm driving an E90 which is pretty dedicated to the track. As sometimes I have 3 drivers and only 2 cars, I have been able to drive both on the same track day with the same tires, brakes and suspension. For a couple years. Although I love the E46 and S54, the comparison is a waste of time. The E9X at a similar state of tune is from 5 to 8 seconds faster with the same driver around a 2:15 min course. The E9X is not only way more powerful, but the chassis received a huge upgrade vs the E46. The E36 and E46 chassis are similar, then there was a step change in the E9X and now the F8X is also a small upgrade vs the E9X. [hopefully the G8X will be another step change] admranger and bigjae1976 and kaiv also have both tracked both platforms The interesting part of the E9X is that it's better in every way than the E46 on the track. More stable, much happier to rotate on throttle, more forgiving, more communicative, insane S65 howl, etc etc. With the price of E9Xs now I think it's a monumental mistake to build an E46 track car. PS: opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one. If you want to know my experience level PM me
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04-25-2018, 10:41 AM | #5 | |
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IMO it depends on your budget. I saved $10k+ getting an E46 which left a lot more room for fun stuff. Problem is (depending on your POV) now I have to trailer the car. If you wanna keep it street and drive to/from the track, E9x may be better way to go.
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04-25-2018, 12:01 PM | #6 | |
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The only weight loss is the same kind of thing I did to the E46M: remove rear seats and seat backs. Last year I had the E92 and E90 at MO and both cars did under 1:40 per SoloDL. One car had NT01 and the other RE71. Granted they both have suspensions. The fastest I've seen there is 1:38.0x IIRC and it was also a full weight E9X M3. The key part here is 'equal drivers'. I don't care that someone is really good and can do 1:30.0 at MO with an E46M3. You're a great driver and very fast, but I'd bet money you'd be faster in the E9X. Back to back between the E46M and the E9X makes it very, very clear. It's not like I've done this once. It's possible that in smaller tracks the gap between both is diminished, so if someone wants to spend their day in Limerock I doubt they'll see such a huge advantage in the E9X. Personally, I feel like is too short to spend significant time outside of WGI/VIR and maybe Pitt Race. |
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04-25-2018, 12:08 PM | #7 | |
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Make sure you reinforce that rear subframe and do the vanos. Use the Redish reinforcement plates and for extra strength double foam the rear. There's an even more stout repair out there involving quite a bit of fabrication, but for a track only car I'd consider doing it. Street legal there's no comparison on a track of any length. E9xM3 is gonna spank the E46M3. That being said, the E46M3 is a car you dance on the track with. You wrestle the E9xM3 around the track. Both are a whole lot of fun.
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04-25-2018, 12:08 PM | #8 | |
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04-25-2018, 12:09 PM | #9 |
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You can get rid of seats, carpet, speakers, doorcards, etc and it's still street legal though. Shit you can add a baby seat still lol
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04-25-2018, 12:12 PM | #10 | |
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I drive as much as 10h to tracks. It taxes my patience with race seats, 700/1000 springs, etc. I could never do it with a stripped interior although you're right, it would be technically legal I drove the M4 GTS 250 miles on Sunday and was annoyed at how much road noise I heard and the harshness of the suspension. |
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04-25-2018, 12:13 PM | #11 | |
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Yup I get what you mean hehe |
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04-25-2018, 12:19 PM | #12 | |
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http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=549226 Again, this is just an E46 perspective, not familiar with the E9x platform or the costs!
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04-25-2018, 12:21 PM | #13 | ||
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I also really want the DCT vs running the SMG for one track day and then doing a 6spd conversion and being even more in the hole when I can just pickup a salvage E92 with ~80k miles for under $20k and put it on an immediate diet. Goals for the car are Nasa TT and time attack events (e46 has more options for wheel to wheel because of its power/weight) - the car will be used on the street for a while which is another point for the E92. I'm still having fun with my E82 on track so the M3 wouldn't get fully built until next year although I have an appointment at TC design next week to talk about plans for the car. Big plus is that I can swap everything over as the e82 & e9x have the same suspension design just a twitchy shorter wheelbase UGH I guess I need to just consider the e46 purchase a sunk cost and start looking for an E92. Anyone want a track ready dual-duty E46?
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04-25-2018, 12:23 PM | #14 | |
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04-25-2018, 12:25 PM | #15 | |
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Look at GT3rs interiors, super functional IMO. Those little rear seat indentations would hold a child fine... Just tell him to hold on tight and watch out for the main hoop
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04-25-2018, 05:26 PM | #16 |
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I agree with SYT_shadow and Admranger.
I know the hardcore E46 guys with their classic look, steering and driver feel want to say that the E46 is a capable chassis. Compared to an E9X M3, it's not. The only e46s that could get by me on track in my Dinan stage 2 E90 M3 were full blown GTS2 race cars with aero. In reality, an E9X isn't that much heavier than an E46. The only time it felt heavier was in a quick switchback. The only downer is an E9X M3 eats tires and brakes and drinks gas at an alarming rate. Probably worse with a DCT but I figured about 5MPG. The cluster only goes down to 6. Usually drinks a 1/3 of a tank per session. Expect to spend more on tires and brakes...about 50% more.
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04-25-2018, 07:49 PM | #18 | |
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I've made up my mind haha - just wanted to post this in the M3post forum to fully convince myself that the e46 was a sunk cost and the E92 is the way to go. Stoked to compare it to my E82 on track! Have buyers coming this weekend to look at the E46 and now I'm scouring BRZO to find the perfect E92 DCT.
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04-25-2018, 07:53 PM | #20 |
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quite delicious
Thanks Lovin this convo
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04-26-2018, 07:33 AM | #21 | |
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I had E36 M3C (S50B32 engine, euro) which is around 100kg lighter than E46 M3. With 245 squared setup, it would be fairly easy to pass stock/slightly modified E92s on Okayama international. Not to mention it is much more fun to throw around corners. I would get E46 M3 in MT, strip it, reinforce subframe and drive the hell out of it on track. If you want some comfort around the street & something different from E46 that has brute straight line acceleration, get E92 M3. E92 interior is too damn fine to strip it IMHO..
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04-26-2018, 08:39 AM | #22 |
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Just come to the dark side. Don't resist the v8.
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