2012 M3 Engine

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ///M Rakete

So we're talking about an E92 M3, model year 2012, with a warmed over N54 twin-turbo 6, presumably the engine that will be in the 2011 M1 but will itself be dropped for a 4-banger?

No. We're talking about:

- an E92 M3 with an upgraded S65. Could be a 4.4L, could be just a retune or whatever. Scott23 didn't say (and probably doesn't know for sure, since planning is probably still in it's infancy, if it is going to happen).

- an F3x M3 with an engine derived from the engine in the E82 M1.

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

No, It won't be a N54. It's going to be a twin turbo V6, not an I6, from reports.

Those reports were speculation based on comments made by M Division officials. Scott's quote above seems to hint strongly it will be based on the I6 in the M1. Although, no one confirmed the M1 will get an I6 yet, but I strongly, strongly doubt it will have a V6.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Thrumcap

What is best guess as to when next generation M3 will be introduced? 2013?

E46 M3: Early 2001 in the US (MY2001).
E9x M3: Early 2008 in the US (MY2008).
F3x M3: Early 2015 in the US (MY2015).

To be clear, it is indeed a guess, as you solicited. But I think it is a pretty good one.

If the F30 3 series sedan hits early (prior to the expected March 2012 intro as an MY2013 in the US, then we can move this date up accordingly).

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

Yeah, I will post it.

Thanks for posting that, BTW. It is stuff like this that I wish would get moved here by mods and higlighted. These posts are really some of the most important ones as far as M3 owners and potential owners are concerned, IMHO.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Thanks for posting that, BTW. It is stuff like this that I wish would get moved here by mods and higlighted. These posts are really some of the most important ones as far as M3 owners and potential owners are concerned, IMHO.

Sorry about that one, M. I meant to post this here also, but ran out of time yesterday.


Best regards,
south

[mkoesel]

No problem south! I wasn't trying to dog on you or any other mod. I appreciate you originally sharing the info from Scott (did he post it elsewhere?). I guess what I was saying was we need more topics with inside info in this forum. Juicy info = good times.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by southlight

Sorry about that one, M. I meant to post this here also, but ran out of time yesterday.


Best regards,
south

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Nope, but BMW has learned quite a few lessons from all the tuning methods used on the 335i.

The next generation of engine management computers, will have a software operating systems that can detect any unauthorized (third-party)changes to the ECU programming. If it detects an attempt to change the values within the factory mapping tables, it will lock the ECU...and log that event into memory. (requiring you to make a trip to the dealer to unlock it. (where you will have some serious explaining to do)

The new ECU's will be able to recognize an encrypted "digital fingerprint", that will only be available on BMW factory-authorized software updates.

Seems like there would be a legal issue here. I can understand logging events from a tune if the engine were to become damaged by the tune, thereby voiding the warranty. I don't see how they can get away with locking the ECU and forcing you to go to the dealer to resolve it. Why should anyone have any explaining to do? If I buy a car, I should be able to do anything I wish to it, keeping in mind however that a potential mod or tune may void the warranty.

[valbauer]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Seems like there would be a legal issue here. I can understand logging events from a tune if the engine were to become damaged by the tune, thereby voiding the warranty. I don't see how they can get away with locking the ECU and forcing you to go to the dealer to resolve it. Why should anyone have any explaining to do? If I buy a car, I should be able to do anything I wish to it, keeping in mind however that a potential mod or tune may void the warranty.

Agreed. That sounds like some BS. Weren't there rumors of this happening with the E9x before that come out anyway? That never happened.

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by valbauer

For real. Just got mine, no regrets

Damn strong line-up - congrats!!

How do you like it so far?

[valbauer]

Originally Posted by RandyB

Damn strong line-up - congrats!!

How do you like it so far?

Thanks. I pretty much love it so far, although I haven't gotten to drive it super hard lately because of all the rain we've been getting.

[DiamondGCoupe]

Regardless of the new numbers I much prefer the V8 to a TT'dV6 anyday.

[JCtx]

The only official news we have on future M3 is engine will be a 'FI 6', correct? If true, there's absolutely no chance in hell a dying M3 will get a 4.4L V8, period. Or any power increase on current engine, for that matter.
What is definitely feasible is dropping the 'new' engine on old car, if that's the plan, but that'd still be a first. And I suspect only if that engine doesn't require recertification on new car (same power), meaning new car would have to be lighter to be a performance upgrade compared to old car (a must).

I personally don't care about this crap, but it's certain car/engine development has to be already DEEP under way, as it takes at least 4 years for that. The wildcard here is Audi's S5, which showed up with a NA V8 as before, right? Hmmmmm. Maybe there's hope for a NA V8 here, since the 4.4L is already developed. And that 4.4L would be a must if the car gains any weight, which is very likely. It should be known soon enough what engine direction the next M3 is going; just be patient .

[JOHNBMWM5]

It would appear the M5 is the only option for the V8 M CAR in 2012/14.
I love the idea BUT at what price? £70k+ to much for me.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by elp_jc

The only official news we have on future M3 is engine will be a 'FI 6', correct?

Yes, although it is hardly "company line"-like official. It's more the musing of a high ranking BMW employee than anything else. Nothing has been promised, however I'd say we can pretty much count on something like the new M1 engine for the F3x m3.

If true, there's absolutely no chance in hell a dying M3 will get a 4.4L V8, period. Or any power increase on current engine, for that matter.
What is definitely feasible is dropping the 'new' engine on old car, if that's the plan, but that'd still be a first.

I'd have to disagree with you on that. Of those two possibilities I would say the latter is infintesimally less likely. Don't get me wrong, I am far from convinced at this point that we will see a power increase for the E9x M3. But putting the FI I6 in the current M3? That's far from realistic. The car and engine were designed around each other. If you put in such a radically different engine, the whole car would need revision. It would change everything from the weight distribution to the suspension setup and steering parameters. The whole thing would need reworking, and at a very high cost.

And I suspect only if that engine doesn't require recertification on new car (same power), meaning new car would have to be lighter to be a performance upgrade compared to old car (a must).

That's not how it works though. You can't just drop an already-certified engine into a brand new car and side-step recertifying it. It's a package deal. You have to go through the whole process again with the new car.

The wildcard here is Audi's S5, which showed up with a NA V8 as before, right? Hmmmmm. Maybe there's hope for a NA V8 here, since the 4.4L is already developed. And that 4.4L would be a must if the car gains any weight, which is very likely. It should be known soon enough what engine direction the next M3 is going; just be patient .

BMW has known about the RS5 (you meant RS5, right?) engine for a long, long time. They don't need to use a V8 to compete with the RS5. They just need to build a better car. The next M3 won't have a V8, I think we can pretty much accept that at this point.

[///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

No. We're talking about:

- an E92 M3 with an upgraded S65. Could be a 4.4L, could be just a retune or whatever.

That would be sweet, the 4.4l, but seems at such odds with past history. A retune/exhaust would be good too.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by valbauer

Agreed. That sounds like some BS. Weren't there rumors of this happening with the E9x before that come out anyway? That never happened.

I vaguely recall hearing that as well.

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

BMW has known about the RS5 (you meant RS5, right?)

Yep, my bad. I only replied to this thread because I had nothing better to do . I was just expressing which option I thought was more likely, but they're as likely as a meteor hitting the earth in 2012 .

I'll be back on this thread if we survive 2012 (we will) to confirm the current M3 will go out just as it came in, with a 4.0L V8 with 414 hp. The only question is what FI 6 engine will power the next version, which I personally don't give a rat's a$$ because I won't buy a FI M3 . Take care man.

[Eau Rouge]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

E46 M3: Early 2001 in the US (MY2001).
E9x M3: Early 2008 in the US (MY2008).
F3x M3: Early 2015 in the US (MY2015).

To be clear, it is indeed a guess, as you solicited. But I think it is a pretty good one.

If the F30 3 series sedan hits early (prior to the expected March 2012 intro as an MY2013 in the US, then we can move this date up accordingly).

That is, IMHO, a pretty good guess.

At what appears to be approximately the mid-generation point of the E9xM3 BMW sliced six months off of the MY2010. Is the ultimate goal to run the 2013 MY from March 2012 thru February 2013 then launch a 2015 MY M3 in early 2014? Or will there be a six month production of a 2014 model (March 2013-August 2103) with the launch of the next generation M3 in September 2014 as a 2014 MY or 2015 MY? Whatever happens, three more model years ('11-'13) seems like a very safe bet.

[ploo]

Originally Posted by RandyB

Wow! In that case did we ever buy an E9X M3 at the right time!

Start saving for that GT3, N/A fellas...

Already started

[southlight]

I removed some comments not being related to the topic. Thanks for understanding!


Best regards,
south

[guarnibl]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Nope, but BMW has learned quite a few lessons from all the tuning methods used on the 335i.

The next generation of engine management computers, will have a software operating systems that can detect any unauthorized (third-party)changes to the ECU programming. If it detects an attempt to change the values within the factory mapping tables, it will lock the ECU...and log that event into memory. (requiring you to make a trip to the dealer to unlock it. (where you will have some serious explaining to do)

The new ECU's will be able to recognize an encrypted "digital fingerprint", that will only be available on BMW factory-authorized software updates.

I call BS.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Well it's going to have to be POWERFUL to beat this

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/24...91b4ad02654fe3

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

The S5 is also getting the S4's supercharged V6 this summer.

P.S. I am in the market for a new M3. My lease ends very soon, Should I wait it out to see what this 2012 M3 holds?

I think you'll be waiting for a long time. There are tons of 2010's on the lots and 2011 is not even out yet...BMW is not going to do anything to cause people to postpone an M3 purchase. They frankly have no reason to...even the new RS5 doesn't appear it will be much faster if at all than the M3.