Went from BPM tune to Gintani tune

[ck-e92]

Originally Posted by Narvin

The salt burns.. I need some sugar

Internet says to be marinated now these days...everybody is a whole bowl of mixed up emotions. Had me dying.

.ck

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by AndrewA

Had Gintani burble tune for about 12k miles.

Both oil analysis came with no fuel in the oil and I make this thing burble and shoot flames a lot

Originally Posted by AndrewA

Had Gintani burble tune for about 12k miles.

Both oil analysis came with no fuel in the oil and I make this thing burble and shoot flames a lot

[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/264gea1.jpg[/IMG]

Is the flame spitting car an S65?

[///Mbitions]

[QUOTE=Mike Benvo;22304135]Interesting - I don't see you in our system as someone that purchased our software. Can you please provide your VIN or order number? I can check to see which version of our software you had.

Hey Mike I sent you a PM

[R_lara]

What?s the hype with the burble anyway as far as I know your gas millage goes to s#it and the exhaust detonations make your oil run hotter than normal but if those explosions Rock tot boat ?WOOOHOOO? ENJOY YOUR FIRE CRACKERS. I my opinion show me better WHP en smooth running car. Me ? With all my BPM TUNES 91, 100oct 100oct push as we call it and e 85. Expositions just don?t do it for me or I?m just to old and old fashioned. Kill me with performance and functionality.

PS no need to bash other tuners work I have heard great thing about Gintani but BPM just fits my bill and remember ?BE HAPPY And Enjoy What You Have!!!

Have a great day

Richard.

[Teufel_Hunden]

.

[AndrewA]

Originally Posted by L4ces

Is the flame spitting car an S65?

Yup E90 M3

The claims of fuel getting into the oil from the burbles, in my case, are untrue.

[818m3e92]

Originally Posted by ck-e92

You said the manual claims our cars runs rich.

Anyways, to lighten up this whole topic...how long of a breath do you expect everyone to take just to read your comments.

I say this: Gintani => BPM. BPM => Gintani. Deal with it however you see it, don't go creating threads to cause Internet wars.

To me, shooting flames shouldn't exist on any car unless you're running turbo's, my own personal preference. Most of us are what, over 30? Gonna be driving around spitting flames like Fast & Furious? Is that stuff still "cool"?

We've all seen the videos online of rich kids in Dubai lighting their exotics on fire from doing stupid backfires. So what makes a $100k engine more durable than the S65? Sorry guys, I very much treasure this car. No matter how many miles, this thing is going to be babied till it's grave.

.ck

NO i said in the manual it specifically states what it does about the emissions, which was the correction to my out of context comment i made, in reply to 1 comment regarding black build up on the exhaust, so you take 1 incorrect statement i made and what? I love when people avoid everything else to find 1 incorrect statement which has nothing to do with the thread, i was simply replying to a comment, where i didn't explain myself fully, OH MY GOD, you are so morally above me and so informed i must bow before you.

Also i didn't create any thread, also OP simply stated he had BPM, and now has gintani, he said he loves it more, says it feels faster and loves the flames. So what? Its a damn discussion forum dude, get that stick out your ass, if you don't like it keep it to yourself, except we have guys and companies coming on here hating on Gintani and its product and hating on the people who love it including OP, so we should sit and let you guys insult us and the company we love and take our cars too?

You don't like flames? Good for you, but they do, to each his own, but i don't appreciate other companies coming onto a regular thread bashing another company and the users who have its product, by stating its "unsafe" or making up bullshit lies about gas in oil reports.

Nobody started the internet war except for the guys with sticks up their asses who blindly hate gintani and its products and the people who post about and enjoy their goods and services, the same guys bash gintani in other threads, its always the same thing man, don't be ignorant to the truth or who is starting wars.

Sorry if you don't like long replies, after i realized NOT fully explaining certain statements like "running rich" allows A-holes to ignore the point and attack me for not being specific enough, so I've decided to be very extensive in my responses, and this is a DISCUSSION forum no? So i guess ill discuss as much as i want too, thanks!

[818m3e92]

Originally Posted by EnVe46

Running rich on start up doesn?t mean the S65 runs rich, which is what you said to defend your statement to Mike. The issue here is you?re calling people out who are providing good info on the potential issues with a burble tune. Key word, POTENTIAL. I?m happy you haven?t had any issues with your burble tune. Reality is there?s people who come here to learn about things whether it be a tune or installing brakes. Just because you?ve had no issues, doesn?t mean burble tunes aren?t harmful in some way or several. That?s all anyone has said and you?ve blasted the same run on, poorly punctuated sentence several times, you?re not the rule but rather the exception.

No i didn't explain myself fully, as mike admitted and you did it does run rich on startup, but i was replying to a comment about increased black gunk on exhaust tips, so stated, nobody with burble option will car, and it runs rich anyways, sorry i forgot to say runs rich on start up, but of course, you guys find 1 incorrect statement i make and are obsessed in trying to prove how much smarter you are then me.

So im calling people out for providing BULLSHIT info, as stated by the tuner at gintani himself said, and he's corrected mike and other tuners have corrected him in other threads before for spreading nonsense. Also, YES I've had no issues lol, thats the point, somebody is making BULLSHIT statements about POTENTIAL harm and I'm simply saying, HEY, I've done over 68k miles, 2 cars, with gintanis tune and burble option and never had any issues, I'm a prime example as I've probably done the most mileage compared to most, but its okay i know it doesn't matter thats why you all ignore that point.

Also, because I've had no issues? Umm i haven't seen one person comment with issues, i know of over 30 people with burble tunes and haven't had any issues, yes 20 of them are in a group chat I'm in, as i helped with gintanis group buy of the tune. All i saw is 1 company make blanket negative statements without showing any proof, just like i asked where are these so called oil reports that show increased "fuel in the oil report", but no proof has been provided.

Sorry I'm not typing properly as most of these comments are off my phone, but this isn't english class and I'm not getting graded, its a discussion forum, and this thread isn't about learning shit, its about OP having BPM tune, and then getting gintani tune as he wasn't happy with BPMs service and product, and is EXTREMELY happy with gintanis tune and the burble option. But people aren't here discussing negatives, its hypotheticals and assumptions with no proof, so i provided ME as proof, and can provide 30 others who haven't had any issues from the "burble" option as we know of right now.

I havent blasted, ive defended and corrected, just as you guys corrected me on my incorrect statement on "running rich" lol, but when another company comes onto a post by a regular guy who simply didn't like one product and is happier with the other, to then have people come on saying oh, this is crap, oh this is bad, and another tuner/company typing essays about negative hypotheticals in a product offered by another company, it shows no class, i mean i don't see gintani going onto threads talking about ESS tunes or BPM tunes and talking shit about how BPM has no clue how to set up a burble option correctly? NO, so i felt personally attacked when i read this and felt the need to reply to every person hating just to hate and spreading false information.

Anytime people want to know if a product is good "LONG TERM" as people are claiming Long term is bad, wouldn't we want to see cars who've had the tune for LONG TERM to then see if they've had problems? Such as myself, I've had none, oil report was great, car runs strong and healthy, and 80K miles, I'm planning on doing another 70k at least, WITH THE BURBLE option in my gintani tune! Thanks

[818m3e92]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

That's not what happened here and I'm not going to argue with you. I've said everything that needed to be said, and it has been nothing but factual without commenting negatively on anyone else's products or services. The same can not be said about your posts, which contain misinformation, personal attacks, and an overly aggressive tone.

Except were not a company competing against the company you're speaking negatively on, VERY big difference.

[818m3e92]

Originally Posted by AndrewA

Had Gintani burble tune for about 12k miles.

Both oil analysis came with no fuel in the oil and I make this thing burble and shoot flames a lot

YES THANK YOU, this is why i said MIKE is claiming false information, he claims oil reports show this or that but provides no proof, and the first oil analysis we have posted shows the OPPOSITE of his negative claims about the tune, THANK YOU

[ck-e92]

Originally Posted by 818m3e92

NO i said in the manual it specifically states what it does about the emissions, which was the correction to my out of context comment i made, in reply to 1 comment regarding black build up on the exhaust, so you take 1 incorrect statement i made and what? I love when people avoid everything else to find 1 incorrect statement which has nothing to do with the thread, i was simply replying to a comment, where i didn't explain myself fully, OH MY GOD, you are so morally above me and so informed i must bow before you.

Also i didn't create any thread, also OP simply stated he had BPM, and now has gintani, he said he loves it more, says it feels faster and loves the flames. So what? Its a damn discussion forum dude, get that stick out your ass, if you don't like it keep it to yourself, except we have guys and companies coming on here hating on Gintani and its product and hating on the people who love it including OP, so we should sit and let you guys insult us and the company we love and take our cars too?

You don't like flames? Good for you, but they do, to each his own, but i don't appreciate other companies coming onto a regular thread bashing another company and the users who have its product, by stating its "unsafe" or making up bullshit lies about gas in oil reports.

Nobody started the internet war except for the guys with sticks up their asses who blindly hate gintani and its products and the people who post about and enjoy their goods and services, the same guys bash gintani in other threads, its always the same thing man, don't be ignorant to the truth or who is starting wars.

Sorry if you don't like long replies, after i realized NOT fully explaining certain statements like "running rich" allows A-holes to ignore the point and attack me for not being specific enough, so I've decided to be very extensive in my responses, and this is a DISCUSSION forum no? So i guess ill discuss as much as i want too, thanks!

Whoa dude, what is your problem?

Stick up my ass? Look at yourself, I made a simple remark to lighten up this thread. Did I ever say one was better than the other? No, right? Unless, you can't comprehend what => means.

If you didn't like what people said, why didn't you keep it to yourself either? Come on, taste your own medicine. Why are you so selective on just responding to me? There's others on here that basically call you a corny reject.

I bet people don't like you in person either.

.ck

[SuckaGDog]

Originally Posted by AndrewA

Yup E90 M3

The claims of fuel getting into the oil from the burbles, in my case, are untrue.

I ran a burble tune from Evolve and had fuel in my oil after testing via Blackstone.. Take it for what its worth.

[AndrewA]

Originally Posted by SuckaGDog

I ran a burble tune from Evolve and had fuel in my oil after testing via Blackstone.. Take it for what its worth.

I see... But you're talking 2 different tuners plus Evolve burble sounds completely different than Gintani burble.

Based on the facts here with your blackstone test vs my blackstone test, we can agree that it may come down to the way the tuner sets up the burble.

I have had no trace of fuel in my oil analysis with my Gintani burble setup so I can personally say its perfectly safe.

Can't say the same for Evolve though.

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by 818m3e92

Well in the manual it doesn't say running rich specifically, but does mention upon start up if the car is in a garage or closed area it should be moved immediately as it releases a lot of gas upon start up, especially if theres no cats i can imagine its even worse, maybe my wording isn't correct, but what do i know, I'm just a random nobody?

LMAO! In your mind, that's BMW telling you in the manual that it runs rich? Jesus... Your reading comprehension is utterly broken and the education system has failed you. There's this thing called carbon monoxide, and thats what you're referring to. That shit you are referencing has nothing to with BMW stating the car runs rich from factory.

And if you're a random nobody that doesn't know, best not to advise others about things you're not certain about.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by 818m3e92

YES THANK YOU, this is why i said MIKE is claiming false information, he claims oil reports show this or that but provides no proof, and the first oil analysis we have posted shows the OPPOSITE of his negative claims about the tune, THANK YOU

Chill out bro. You just need to know how fuel dilution works... I don't think anyone is going to get anywhere with you, but I'll post this for others' benefit.

A basic oil test like the one posted doesn't usually tell you anything about fuel in the oil as a result of a possible by-product of a burble tune. If you take the sample properly and oil is taken hot, all fuel should have burned off by the time you take the sample and won't show up. A TBN report would be needed to determine if anything is happening as a result of fuel dilution. Unfavorable results could simply mean a shorter life cycle of the oil between changes.

This thread needs a chill pill.

[AndrewA]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Chill out bro. You just need to know how fuel dilution works... I don't think anyone is going to get anywhere with you, but I'll post this for others' benefit.

A basic oil test like the one posted doesn't usually tell you anything about fuel in the oil as a result of a possible by-product of a burble tune. If you take the sample properly and oil is taken hot, all fuel should have burned off by the time you take the sample and won't show up. A TBN report would be needed to determine if anything is happening as a result of fuel dilution. Unfavorable results could simply mean a shorter life cycle of the oil between changes.

This thread needs a chill pill.

Assuming both SuckaGDog and myself collected the oil sample properly, it shows that the Evolve burble tune is causing fuel dilution while the Gintani burble tune is not.

Maybe he will chime in like he did last time to clear things up (before the thread was deleted) and hopefully his post or this whole thread wont be deleted

[Sales@Gintani.com]

We've been trying to keep out of this thread for a few days now. As you all know our presence on the forums isn't all that great. We found that many companies/ or people bash each other when we should come together as a community, as well as inform enthusiast with the correct information.

So with this post, we are aiming to clear up some misinformation regarding tuning and hopefully better inform everyone in regards to that by explaining as best as we can.

*NOTE: I invite any tuner on here to discuss this with us, so that we can help better inform the forum as a whole instead of leading sheep to the slaughterhouse.


Mike Benvo mentioned there isn’t much to be done in the Mss60 software to gain power and that to make power you will have to adjust the minimum timing table causing a potential risk of engine failure if the timing required is in fact lower than your set minimum. Okay, so far so good, however, just like when Benvo was jumping to conclusions less than 2 months ago, creating a post so misleading and wrong in every single aspect (reading it felt like watching a bird fly into a window in slow motion), like I did then I’ll do now and simply correct Benvo’s mistakes and fix the misguidance and fake statements he let float into the Forums for enthusiast to read and even worse, believe. IT HAS TO STOP.


-Gintani shoots for maximum gain with disregard to safety and longevity of the engine.

This is false:

Gintani doesn’t “shoot” for maximum gain outside of safe parameters. We have fingers pointed at us for having low dyno charts. Then when going up against another tuners file, with higher gains claimed, in a heads up race our tune comes out ahead. We value safety first, so you won't find our gain claims to always be the highest, but the gains you see on our plots is what you will have in every gear and every pull. That’s where we make a difference. Is it our problem that our tune makes more reliable power than others when tuning within the safe parameters? Just because our tune beats another tuner's "stage 2" doesn't mean its not safe. There could be many factors affecting that. One major one is that the other tuner has no CLUE as to what they are doing or changing within the maps.


- Oil Reports will show excess amount of fuel trace. Fuel overrun/burble will dump fuel into the oil

The extremely small amount/mist of fuel used in a fuel overrun/burble situation is next to nothing. We are talking 13.5:1 AFR and that's on a closed throttle with the idle air control valve at 18% opening, which is less than idle, with the opening time less than a millisecond. There is no way you will be able to measure more raw fuel in the oil on any of our tunes than a stock software setup.

These "tuners" are simply misguiding and misinforming people about the fuel overrun/burble, because they themselves cannot properly make the correct changes to make the vehicle burble. The facts are in that statement is in their own explanations to why their burble tune is acting weird in decel trying to burble. They simply have no clue to how much you need to close the throttle and how little fuel you need to give. They are simply giving too much, which is causing the vehicle to lurch back and forth. It’s just plain wrong because that will definitely cause complete misfuelling and even a lean burn in the cylinder since there sometimes is enough fuel and sometimes there isn’t. It will have much more unburnt fuel coming from the exhaust with their ridiculous excuse of a burble setup. Think about this for a second. If there is fuel being dumped into the engine with the throttle open, what do you think will happen? I'm giving away my "secret" here, surely in these few sentences, you "tuners" can figure out how to make the vehicle burble properly if you really understand anything about tuning.

This person in the few sentences above are not only claiming that other tuners are putting the engine at risk, but also say that their way is a safe way! You are violating every single rule in fundamental decision making doing that since what you should have done here was to say I Mike Benvo don’t have the cheat codes to do a burble setup so please go elsewhere if you want it. Same goes for your last attempt to make a “educational post” you didn’t even know that the map you were describing was ignition correction for cylinder pressure and that the change made by tuner you were cursing at actually made more sense than your entire post, where your lack of knowledge of the mss60 made you believe that you were talking about the minimum timing table! It was completely outrageous. I never reply to posts or get in other tuners posts, but this was simply so bad, I could not ignore it.

YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND PEOPLE BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU WRITE.

A little while back, I was trying to educate the community with the correct information, but the thread was deleted. Too bad my response didn't last more than 3 minutes on this forum as it was taken down right away, before people could even read the correct information. I thought "well I hope he understood that it’s not ok to write things you don’t understand and provide false information to the community". Now you have done it again, with unsubstantiated claims about software you have no knowledge about. I am getting tired of having to take time away from my work to come on here to correct misleading information, and having to explain myself due to your sneaky tactics indirectly attacking us and others tuners, without any truths behind your claims.

-Burble will cause you to overheat

Overheating from doing burble!?!? The o2 sensors require and have a regulated minimum operating temp of 1185degF. If the burble should happen to heat up the exhaust the o2 sensor heater stops OR you can make it stop. Something you should do in your retuned Supercharger software so you stop frying peoples o2 sensors. Should the EGT (Exhaust temp) get too high simply by revving it and shooting flames, guess what, the complete original system that prevents the EGT to go to high in the first place kicks in. The system works so if you have fuel or certain AFR while in high EGT you can’t have negative timing. The factory Mss60 ecu simply prevents the EGT from going higher than the allowed amount. The burble stops until you are in a safe range again and that system works amazing.


The nonsense you have put into people’s heads that only direct fuel injected cars can burble?!? Have you ever seen the injection timing tables of a port injected engine? Have you ever seen the cam tables of a port injected engine? Do you know what overlap is? Look into that and for any reasonable IT guy like you a clear burble picture should emerge. If not come to my shop and I can explain to you how it works. But I do charge for that


I know you are not a fan of burble but I’m not a fan of your misdirection. So either post the CORRECT information or stop writing bs like you just did.




We have a 6,000 sqft (and in the process of moving to our new 10,000 sqft) facility with over $1,000,000 in equipment, including factory level measuring devices for every aspect of the motor, chasis, suspension, brakes etc, a dyno with an air chamber room, multiple CNC machines, manual mills and lathes, 3d printers, multiples lifts, certified high level technicians, certified high level fabricators and welders, we also contract people that work for car manufacturers. So any change in any of our products, more specifically, our software has over 20 - 150 hours of testing before being released to the public.

[ilikebmxbikes]

In my experience all the tunes for NA m3 are generally within 5-10hp of each other and the variance often more related to other mods.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by 818m3e92

YES THANK YOU, this is why i said MIKE is claiming false information, he claims oil reports show this or that but provides no proof, and the first oil analysis we have posted shows the OPPOSITE of his negative claims about the tune, THANK YOU

You need to examine multiple oil analysis charts as similar intervals to draw a better conclusion. There are a lot of variables - just saying but not siding with either claim

[gzim335]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

In my experience all the tunes for NA m3 are generally within 5-10hp of each other and the variance often more related to other mods.

it doesnt sound like you have much experience

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by gzim335

it doesnt sound like you have much experience

My experience is based on dynoing 10 FBO e92 on the same day, same dyno. It's not from comparing a bunch of random dyno sheets online from all over the world, comparing SAE numbers to STD and different dynos of different make.

[gzim335]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

My experience is based on dynoing 10 FBO e92 on the same day, same dyno. It's not from comparing a bunch of random dyno sheets online from all over the world, comparing SAE numbers to STD and different dynos of different make.

Comparing 10 diff cars is the same as comparing diff dyno sheets on diff conditions,do you have experience with various tunes on ur own car?cuz I do n they not all 5-10hp apart