Update on M DCT "lag" issue

swamp2 · 06-30-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racedoc11

Do you have a number we can relate to? you know how it is at some dealers

+1, my appointment is tomorrow. I really want to update because it helps. It will also help having your "ducks in a row". Thanks again BMWM.D.!

nitramsen · 07-01-2009, 03:35 AM

Updated SI B 28 07 08

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B12 55 06 dated January 2009.

designates changes to this revision

SUBJECT
M3 with M DCT - Complaint of Delayed Throttle Response

MODEL
E90, E92, E93 with S65 and M DCT transmission up to 04/09 production

SITUATION
The customer may complain about delayed throttle response when reaccelerating after a series of downshifts during heavy deceleration (hard braking). This condition is experienced when the transmission is in D or S mode, with the Drivelogic program selected to three or less bars.

No acceleration delay is experienced when the vehicle is driven in the M manual mode.

INFORMATION
During a "rolling stop" situation, which is followed by heavy acceleration demand, the transmission goes through the series of downshifts in order to match the appropriate gear with the high load signal.

The short time period necessary to perform the multiple downshifts may create the perception of "throttle delay". In reality, it is a design characteristic and normal behavior for the M DCT transmission when operated in D or S mode, rather then a malfunction or deficiency.

Due to the ongoing quality optimization process, the newest version of the M DCT software provides additional improvements to the transmission drivability, resulting in further reduction of shifting time and engine torque application.

To significantly improve the throttle response (or to reduce "throttle lag"), reprogram the vehicle with the current ISTA/P version (target integration E089-09-03-510 or higher, introduced in ISTA/P 2.33.1).

In order to completely eliminate the delay sensation, as described above, the customer needs to operate the M DCT in the manual mode (paddle or gear lever manual shifting).

Explain the M DCT's operating behavior, as described above, to the customer.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty or the Certified Pre-Owned Program.

Funny how we now have a D,S and Manual Mode in our cars. Do we have to pay for the extra feature or is that complimentary?

"This condition is experienced when the transmission is in D or S"

"No acceleration delay is experienced when the vehicle is driven in the M manual mode"

bobbyd1961 · 07-01-2009, 05:04 AM

i definately experience lag in the D mode when slowing down into a turn and then accelerating out of it onto a straight away. my other problem is at a start in Dmode with the power button on the car starts jerking back and forth like someone whos never shifted before. it appears it cant handle the power. when i want a fast start of the line its better to be in paddle mode with the power button on the car handles much better. i dont know if there is a software solution for this.

BarryC · 07-01-2009, 07:17 AM

I have the lag regardless of the mode I'm in and it happens at every intersection unless I either come to a complete stop for a sec or so or downshift to first 2-3 secs before I want to go again. Major PITA - so I'm looking forward to this update. Thanks to all for running this to ground!

BC

M3ltdown · 07-01-2009, 07:21 AM

Does anybody know when this new software was released?

My car was built late April 2009 so it is fairly new.

mkoesel · 07-01-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwin316

My car was built late April 2009 so it is fairly new.

According to the bulletin only cars built 4/09 and earlier need the update. So you should not require it.

nitramsen · 07-01-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwin316

Does anybody know when this new software was released?

My car was built late April 2009 so it is fairly new.

Does your car have the Lag?

M3ltdown · 07-01-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitramsen

Does your car have the Lag?

car is still breaking in so I have been gentle with the transmission.... no hard stops and getting on the gas right after so far. Maybe i'll test it out first then.

nitramsen · 07-01-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwin316

car is still breaking in so I have been gentle with the transmission.... no hard stops and getting on the gas right after so far. Maybe i'll test it out first then.

Forget the hard breaking that is just BMW BS. The lag is normally experienced when rolling for a stop or a slow down like going into a roundabout or exiting one.

What you will feel(With software newer then 2.32.1) if you have the lag is that you apply throttle,the RPMs spins up(2300-2900RPMs) but the car does not move until it suddenly jumps forward and in most cases only when turning. Pre 2.33.1 the lag is different but since your car is from may it should have at least 2.33.2 and fit the above description if everything else is the same hardware wise.

Did you ever experience something similar to this description?

I would say based on my experience with 2.33.1 and a 06/08 car that you should experience the lag more often during break-in then after.

M3ltdown · 07-01-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitramsen

Forget the hard breaking that is just BMW BS. The lag is normally experienced when rolling for a stop or a slow down like going into a roundabout or exiting one.

What you will feel(With software newer then 2.32.1) if you have the lag is that you apply throttle,the RPMs spins up(2300-2900RPMs) but does not move until it suddenly jumps forward. Pre 2.33.1 the lag is different but since your car is from may it should have at least 2.33.2 and fit the above description if everything else is the same hardware wise.

Did you ever experience something similar to this description?

The first one you described is the closest to what i've felt in the car.... the RPM does spin up before the car moves again... i wouldn't describe it as a jump though.

Oh well, i'll play more with the car today and i'll have BMW check to see if I have the newest software when I get the 1200 mile service.

Thanks!

Adonislike · 07-01-2009, 02:03 PM

My car is at BMWM.D.s dealeship as we speak getting updated. He will be doing the work himself. I will report back tonight after a little driving.

carri0n m3 · 07-01-2009, 03:43 PM

how do you figure out when your car was produced? I picked mine up in Munich on May 13, 2009

swamp2 · 07-01-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShErM m3

how do you figure out when your car was produced? I picked mine up in Munich on May 13, 2009

Just look at the sticker in the door jamb! It provides your cars Birthday.

05SCM33 · 07-01-2009, 06:10 PM

Or go here and enter the last 7 digits of your VIN in the first box and hit search . . . .

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do

BarryC · 07-01-2009, 06:10 PM

Have an appt on Friday for the update.

One question though - does using S6 reduce or eliminate the lag? I tried it for a little bit on the way home and it seemed better.

Thanks!
BC

mkoesel · 07-01-2009, 07:22 PM

swamp, did you get the update installed? If so, what are your observations?

Ditto that for Adonislike.

Adonislike · 07-01-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

swamp, did you get the update installed? If so, what are your observations?

Ditto that for Adonislike.

I went to the Santa Barbara dealership today and it turned out to be an entire re-programming, which took about 4 hours or so. My lag was getting progressively worse, the last 2 weeks especially bad.

I drove it home, which is about 30 miles, and noticed LITTLE TO NO LAG in the downshifts. I drove it in both D Mode as well as M Drive. I drove it hard and tried to replicate it multiple times in different scenarios and could not. I really could tell the difference between when I took it in to when I brought it home. I will give it another week or so of driving to determine if it was truly fixed, but so far so good.

I did not have the hose replaced as swamp and others discussed in another thread. That isnt to say that I wont, it just may be that I do not need too. We shall see.

aus · 07-01-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adonislike

I went to the Santa Barbara dealership today and it turned out to be an entire re-programming, which took about 4 hours or so. My lag was getting progressively worse, the last 2 weeks especially bad.

I drove it home, which is about 30 miles, and noticed LITTLE TO NO LAG in the downshifts. I drove it in both D Mode as well as M Drive I drove it hard and tried to replicate it multiple times in different scenarios and could not. I really could tell the difference between when I took it in to when I brought it home. I will give it another week or so of driving to determine if it was truly fixed, but so far so good.

I did not have the hose replaced as swamp and others discussed in another thread. That isnt to say that I wont, it just may be that I do not need too. We shall see.

Good to hear. Did you get the hose done too?

mkoesel · 07-01-2009, 08:19 PM

lol, aus, read his last paragraph

Thanks for the report, Ad. Hopefully the lag is truly gone.

swamp2 · 07-02-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

swamp, did you get the update installed? If so, what are your observations?

Ugh, car has now been in for over 24 hours. The upload failed part way through last night. They restarted it today. The shop foreman is working on it. I think I'll get the car back at the end of the day. If it ain't one thing it's another. At least I have a really sweet Ford Focus in the mean time...

Adonislike · 07-02-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamp2

Ugh, car has now been in for over 24 hours. The upload failed part way through last night. They restarted it today. The shop foreman is working on it. I think I'll get the car back at the end of the day. If it ain't one thing it's another. At least I have a really sweet Ford Focus in the mean time...

Ford Focus

aus · 07-02-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZX6Rman

I called my BMW dealer today again asking to update my car to the latest software and I was told again, "If there is no error code we will not update the car's software. If you want to pay for it we can do it" what BS!. I think I paid enough for the car to get service when I decide I need it and when it is available.

I want my car - like my computers - to be updated to the latest software when available.

I have no idea what to do. I am just upset now.

What dealer? I think you need to go in and show them the paperowork.

07-01-2009, 03:35 AM	#90
nitramsen Private First Class 5 Rep 131 Posts Drives: Many Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Home Land iTrader: (0)	Updated SI B 28 07 08 This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B12 55 06 dated January 2009. designates changes to this revision SUBJECT M3 with M DCT - Complaint of Delayed Throttle Response MODEL E90, E92, E93 with S65 and M DCT transmission up to 04/09 production SITUATION The customer may complain about delayed throttle response when reaccelerating after a series of downshifts during heavy deceleration (hard braking). This condition is experienced when the transmission is in D or S mode, with the Drivelogic program selected to three or less bars. No acceleration delay is experienced when the vehicle is driven in the M manual mode. INFORMATION During a "rolling stop" situation, which is followed by heavy acceleration demand, the transmission goes through the series of downshifts in order to match the appropriate gear with the high load signal. The short time period necessary to perform the multiple downshifts may create the perception of "throttle delay". In reality, it is a design characteristic and normal behavior for the M DCT transmission when operated in D or S mode, rather then a malfunction or deficiency. Due to the ongoing quality optimization process, the newest version of the M DCT software provides additional improvements to the transmission drivability, resulting in further reduction of shifting time and engine torque application. To significantly improve the throttle response (or to reduce "throttle lag"), reprogram the vehicle with the current ISTA/P version (target integration E089-09-03-510 or higher, introduced in ISTA/P 2.33.1). In order to completely eliminate the delay sensation, as described above, the customer needs to operate the M DCT in the manual mode (paddle or gear lever manual shifting). Explain the M DCT's operating behavior, as described above, to the customer. WARRANTY INFORMATION Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty or the Certified Pre-Owned Program. Funny how we now have a D,S and Manual Mode in our cars. Do we have to pay for the extra feature or is that complimentary? "This condition is experienced when the transmission is in D or S" "No acceleration delay is experienced when the vehicle is driven in the M manual mode"
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-01-2009, 05:04 AM	#91
bobbyd1961 Banned 43 Rep 2,406 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 sedan LeMans Blue Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: new jersey iTrader: (0)	i definately experience lag in the D mode when slowing down into a turn and then accelerating out of it onto a straight away. my other problem is at a start in Dmode with the power button on the car starts jerking back and forth like someone whos never shifted before. it appears it cant handle the power. when i want a fast start of the line its better to be in paddle mode with the power button on the car handles much better. i dont know if there is a software solution for this.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-01-2009, 07:17 AM	#92
BarryC Major 121 Rep 1,198 Posts Drives: '15 M3 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Kernersville NC iTrader: (12)	I have the lag regardless of the mode I'm in and it happens at every intersection unless I either come to a complete stop for a sec or so or downshift to first 2-3 secs before I want to go again. Major PITA - so I'm looking forward to this update. Thanks to all for running this to ground! BC __________________ '15 M3, '16 911 Turbo S Cab
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-01-2009, 07:21 AM	#93
M3ltdown Master Chief 19 Rep 641 Posts Drives: 09 e90 M3 JzB Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: NOVA iTrader: (0)	Does anybody know when this new software was released? My car was built late April 2009 so it is fairly new.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-01-2009, 02:03 PM	#99
Adonislike Captain 26 Rep 842 Posts Drives: Toyota Insight/Honda Prius Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Southern California iTrader: (1)	My car is at BMWM.D.s dealeship as we speak getting updated. He will be doing the work himself. I will report back tonight after a little driving.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-01-2009, 03:43 PM	#100
carri0n m3 Second Lieutenant 40 Rep 271 Posts Drives: 2016 x5M Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Boston iTrader: (1)	how do you figure out when your car was produced? I picked mine up in Munich on May 13, 2009
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-01-2009, 06:10 PM	#102
05SCM33 First Lieutenant 30 Rep 385 Posts Drives: 09 E92 M3 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Arizona iTrader: (4)	Or go here and enter the last 7 digits of your VIN in the first box and hit search . . . . http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-01-2009, 06:10 PM	#103
BarryC Major 121 Rep 1,198 Posts Drives: '15 M3 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Kernersville NC iTrader: (12)	Have an appt on Friday for the update. One question though - does using S6 reduce or eliminate the lag? I tried it for a little bit on the way home and it seemed better. Thanks! BC __________________ '15 M3, '16 911 Turbo S Cab
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-01-2009, 07:22 PM	#104
mkoesel Moderator 7512 Rep 19,368 Posts Drives: No BMW for now Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI iTrader: (1)	swamp, did you get the update installed? If so, what are your observations? Ditto that for Adonislike.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-01-2009, 08:19 PM	#107
mkoesel Moderator 7512 Rep 19,368 Posts Drives: No BMW for now Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI iTrader: (1)	lol, aus, read his last paragraph Thanks for the report, Ad. Hopefully the lag is truly gone.
	Appreciate 0 Quote