Why do you not track?

[klammer]

It is really awesome to do, and this car is VERY forgiving and easy to drive at the track. IMO this is the perfect "beginners" car as I have learned and am finding it meditative (in the moment) to do open lapping in this ride. What I really think is that BMW should throw in a track day if you buy the M3 because for me it's at the track, and the subsequent ride home, where I truly and completely love the all around nature of this bad boy and am in awe of this car every drive home from the track. I'm not trying to set lap records, it's all about fun and in that essence "to each his own". But seriously, at least try it once, you only go around this rock once and no one makes it out alive anyway

[IrishCoffee]

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned concerns with insurance. This is probably my biggest fear with tracking a car.

I'm getting my E92 in September and have been wondering what the deal is with insurance on the track. Everywhere I read I get a different answer. It's a frightening prospect to total a $70K car and possibly not be reimbursed for your loss.

I know you can buy track day insurance but it looks like it's a few hundred dollars a day. Couple that with entry fees of $150 plus tires, gas, etc. and it's getting pretty darn pricey for a fun day.

Anyone have direct experience with their insurance and the track?

[IrishCoffee]

Looks like someone beat me to this post in the past couple minutes...

[persian54]

Originally Posted by Richbot

It's a personal choice and nobody on here is in a position to judge anybody else.

I'm not here to judge, I'm just a very curious person

Originally Posted by smmmurf

Yeah, I feel the same way. I got my M3 2yrs ago and haven't tracked it yet. I was 21 when I got it and still baby it. It's because I can't drive my M3 to the point where I can drive my race car.

Why? It's too expensive, too heavy, too soft, there's no class for it to compete in, not enough brake or camber without mods. Oh and I have to drive it to work on Monday.

It's a hoot on the street though!

Well you already have a race car.... so.... you do track... I wasn't say why don't M3 drivers track, I was talking about people with high perf cars in general

Originally Posted by The HACK

There's no point trying to understand it.

But I like to understand things...... or at least try to :P

Originally Posted by Serious

I think everyone should get out there and experience track driving, but if it's not your thing so be it.

That's what I'm trying to figure out... why don't people try it at least :/

Originally Posted by Chuntsman949

I dont own an M3 but I do have a fast 335i tehee, I am nervous about going to the track... I can drive well but I dont know if I can DRIVE WELL if you know what I mean. I am dying to track my car, I just dont know when the best time/event would be.

Two upcoming track days:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=546227
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=547182

Originally Posted by smmmurf

I am an instructor for NASA, have won a SCCA racing championship, and set a track record in a competitive field. I've passed an M3 in a Civic Hybrid in HPDE 1/2.

I have never tracked my M3. I'm a poser?

But you still track....... my point wasn't M3 drivers/sports car drivers not tracking their cars... not but tracking at all. See my point?
(that's my point, not sure about the other member's point...)

Originally Posted by sl1981

i dunno, thats a tough question. passing any car with any other car in hpde1 doesnt say much.

but if you have an m3 that you don't track it is like having a chance to bang the woman you always wanted and instead of plowing her you just put the tip in. what's the point?

Haha I like that... I'll be quoting you

Originally Posted by IAA-C63

I think a primary reason is that people are afraid of crashing at high speed. I don't think that's an unreasonable fear, since the idea behind going to the track should be to learn to approach the limits of the car.

For myself, I hit the track for the first time last week, and I'm hooked.

I feel safer on the track at high speeds than I do driving 75mph on the 405 freeway....

[wwjd15]

no $$$ no track

[persian54]

Originally Posted by sl1981

liberty mutual covers you on the track as long as there is no timing/racing for position involved. i switched to them from 21st century because of this reason.

I'll have to look into this....



The way I look at it is though... if you stay within your limits, you shouldn't total the car

If you can drive it, you can always drive it off the track and then... yeah...

[Serious]

I was doing a shakedown test on my racecar at an hpde event just last night and some guy went off track at 80mph in his viper and rock chipped up the whole passenger side. Dude was about 50 years old with no previous performance driving experience, was driving a 500hp brute of a car and just had a slight lapse in concentration. He was lucky he didn't roll it.

Now this is a fairly rare occurrence, and honestly I can't think of a worse car to do your first HPDE in than a viper but driving on a track is always dangerous to both your safety and your vehicle.

Its understandable this may frighten people.

[smmmurf]

Originally Posted by sl1981

i dunno, thats a tough question. passing any car with any other car in hpde1 doesnt say much.

but if you have an m3 that you don't track it is like having a chance to bang the woman you always wanted and instead of plowing her you just put the tip in. what's the point?

Hmm, I see the M3 as a pretty wife or long term girlfriend. Sure, you can take her to dinner and a nice hotel afterwards (the track). And it's nice to do that once in a while. But most of the time you end up shacking up with her in your apartment.

Race cars, karts, and rental cars are mistresses you can excitedly plow through at the track.

[FStop7]

Originally Posted by Serious

I was doing a shakedown test on my racecar at an hpde event just last night and some guy went off track at 80mph in his viper and rock chipped up the whole passenger side. Dude was about 50 years old with no previous performance driving experience, was driving a 500hp brute of a car and just had a slight lapse in concentration. He was lucky he didn't roll it.

Now this is a fairly rare occurrence, and honestly I can't think of a worse car to do your first HPDE in than a viper but driving on a track is always dangerous to both your safety and your vehicle.

Its understandable this may frighten people.

Nope. Don't you get it? You have to be an Internet hard ass and call people pussies and posers.

[smmmurf]

Originally Posted by Serious

I was doing a shakedown test on my racecar at an hpde event just last night and some guy went off track at 80mph in his viper and rock chipped up the whole passenger side. Dude was about 50 years old with no previous performance driving experience, was driving a 500hp brute of a car and just had a slight lapse in concentration. He was lucky he didn't roll it.

Now this is a fairly rare occurrence, and honestly I can't think of a worse car to do your first HPDE in than a viper but driving on a track is always dangerous to both your safety and your vehicle.

Its understandable this may frighten people.

+1

Don't track anything you can't afford to push off a cliff. Seriously.

Originally Posted by sl1981

how is this different than driving on the freeway and not paying attention and scraping the middle divider, or plowing into the person ahead of you, or changing lanes without looking and hitting the person in the lane next to you, or hitting an illegal immigrant that is running across the freeway?

this is why i love my hpde1/2 classes. there are no illegals running across the track, a higher percentage of people (compared to freeway drivers) are alert and everyone has an instructor with them to temper them down.

Well for one, you're actually insured on the freeway
And two, the track is significantly more dangerous than the street. Without naming specific events, one or two out of 80 cars that sign up for HPDE 1/2 are generally totalled each time there is a weekend event at Infineon Raceway. If you include Group 3 and 4, there are usually about 3-4 totals out of maybe 200 cars. The odds are lower at Thunderhill, Willow Springs, or Buttonwillow, but still. Much riskier than your normal drive down the boulevard. Lol.

[aus]

Originally Posted by sl1981

liberty mutual covers you on the track as long as there is no timing/racing for position involved. i switched to them from 21st century because of this reason.

Good to know since you're in Cali too.

Originally Posted by cullan

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned concerns with insurance. This is probably my biggest fear with tracking a car.

I'm getting my E92 in September and have been wondering what the deal is with insurance on the track. Everywhere I read I get a different answer. It's a frightening prospect to total a $70K car and possibly not be reimbursed for your loss.

I know you can buy track day insurance but it looks like it's a few hundred dollars a day. Couple that with entry fees of $150 plus tires, gas, etc. and it's getting pretty darn pricey for a fun day.

Anyone have direct experience with their insurance and the track?

You'd have to almost drive the car off the track to crash with DSC on. It can happen, but it's not likely. Lockton has insurance by the event, so that can be 1-3 days.
I had the powersteering go out from a shredded pully in the middle of a NASCAR type turn and didn't crash, but that was the end of my day.

Originally Posted by Crazy Bimmer

http://nybmwcca.org/school.php This past event was $240 per student with BMWCCA. You can find other clubs to run with that will cost way less than $400 a day. You need to search more.

Windy City BMW have track days all over. Even Autobahn events that cost about $380 but that includes two full days with an instructor.

I dont know why anyone would want to just go on a track and let loose without any experience and no instructor. That alone sounds dangerous.

They always have excuses...
I don't know how much it is back East, but to rent Autoclub Speedway or Laguna Seca is serious $$$. Buttonwillow and WillowSprings is less, but still not cheap, but there are organizations that can do them for less than $300/day.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by smmmurf

+1

Don't track anything you can't afford to push off a cliff. Seriously.

I don't know if I'd go that far but definitely need to keep in mind that tires blow, people lay down oil, "that guy" gives you a point-by and then hits you in the braking zone. Most people I'm sure you'll agree are very very far from their car's limits and very very far from understanding how to recover from exceeding them. Then again people like us are probably less likely to crash in a race than most people are at their first HPDE...

[Serious]

Originally Posted by sl1981

how is this different than driving on the freeway and not paying attention and scraping the middle divider, or plowing into the person ahead of you, or changing lanes without looking and hitting the person in the lane next to you, or hitting an illegal immigrant that is running across the freeway?

this is why i love my hpde1/2 classes. there are no illegals running across the track, a higher percentage of people (compared to freeway drivers) are alert and everyone has an instructor with them to temper them down.

It's not any different if your doing 140mph and threshold braking, but you shouldn't be doing either of those things on the street.

Driving on the track does require a much higher level of concentration and physical action as well as carrying a significantly higher chance of an major accidents.

BTW I had a brake line burst on my racecar last night and lost nearly all braking capability at 130mph, it was dark (10pm) as well luckily I was able to get it slowed down enough while still keeping it on track.

[captainaudio]

I took a Dodge Skip Barber driving school a few years ago and then went back the next year and took it again. I then went to the racing school (the open wheel cars) and took the 3 day racing school several times the 2 day advanced racing school, and then started attendin car control clinics, laping days, etc, every year,

In 2008 Lime Rock established the Driver's Club and I decided to join. It is the best track experience I have had. The driving coaches are top notch and on club track days there are usually only a handful of cars on the track. Most of the members have dedicated track cars. Mostly Porsches and Spec Miatas but there are also some Ferraris and a BMW M3 GTS. BMW is the "official" car of Lime Rock and the Club has an M3 coupe that is used for training and to give guests "Hot Laps"

CA

[OC3]

Originally Posted by sl1981

liberty mutual covers you on the track as long as there is no timing/racing for position involved. i switched to them from 21st century because of this reason.

Did the rates go up or down or stay same/similar?

[crackberry]

very interesting thread.

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by persian54

I see your point more clearly now

But I can't see how you came up with $1300 for start up... for the entire season, or a couple of days sure... but just the start up?
I didn't spend that much...
I spent $150 for Big Willow Track fee (or whatever it was, maybe 130?), Helmet which I already had from before. Gas was $150ish (go there, track, come back), and that was it.
So my cost for that day was $300.


You don't need to change all the fluids after 1 track day... right..?

A Helmet can be with you for a while (I got mine for $120)
But you can also rent them for $10 so it's not that bad..

If it was going to cost me $1300 to start up... I too wouldn't do it lol

But I did buy a second set of rims and tires for the track, but those have become my daily too (i like the look, and the 18s provide better ride quality over my 220Ms did), so I'm not using that cost towards track cost as well, I'm using it for a daily...



...

I know people said your first time out there with the beginners, you don't need high performance pads or track tires, and I agree.

But I figure I'm going to like it enough. And I know after a season, you need to change all your fluids, so the cost to do so + tires I came up with around $1300 including labor.

[PINHEAD]

damn M3 drivers get butthurt

[kiwistu]

A movie is worth a thousand words...

Great fun!

Cheers
Stu

[M3luvr]

I would love to track my car, but my wife won't let me!

[Sandye90m3]

My dad would look at my tires and be like what the eff have you been doing? And the brakes? Doesn't it have an affect on your warranty as well??

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by Sandye90m3

My dad would look at my tires and be like what the eff have you been doing? And the brakes? Doesn't it have an affect on your warranty as well??

Your dad, eh?