|
|
01-05-2012, 07:26 AM | #45 |
Colonel
1097
Rep 2,287
Posts |
One last point - I've never driven a c63 - but I have driven an e55 (which is very comparable in terms of straight-line acceleration) - so I'm sure the c63 is tons of fun to drive as a DD (as I'm sure it would be on the track as well).
But - as long as you're willing to rev the m3 past 3500 rpm - and you have DCT and drive it in D4 - you still have more than enough power for the vast majority of situations and without having to "find the right gear" or shift all the time - so it can, under these circumstances, be a relatively easy or relaxing DD and still be pretty quick at the same time (and again - so would c63, but at much lower rpm). Really does come down to personal preference - I personally like the overall attributes of the M3 compared to the overall attributes of the C63 - which is why I purchased the m3 - no "right or wrong" answer as to which is a better DD... |
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 07:34 AM | #46 | ||
Brigadier General
2350
Rep 4,253
Posts |
Quote:
All I'm saying here is that 250lb-ft of torque any way you look at it is plenty enough for daily driving. The M3 doesn't need to be wrung out for daily driving, as its plenty powerful in any gear over 2K rpm. UNLESS, of course, you want to drive like a douche and cut in and out of traffic without shifting. Now I'm not saying you NEED a different car to do this, I just question this as the primary reason. If I had read, "well I prefer the power delivery in the C63 for track purposes or etc etc" that I can get behind. But daily driving advantages? Not so much. Quote:
__________________
///M Power
Last edited by stefan; 01-05-2012 at 07:40 AM.. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 07:50 AM | #47 | |
Major
144
Rep 1,440
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
- Frozen Grey F10 M5 DCT
- Rosso Corsa 458 Speciale Sold - Frozen Grey E92 M3 Sold |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 10:38 AM | #49 | |
Savoir Faire
74
Rep 1,772
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Current: Alpine White F10 M5|H&R springs|12mm/10mm spacers|Eisenmann Race
Sold:Imola Yellow RS4-KW V3|MTM 10mm spacers|Hotchkis rear sway bar|APR Stage 1|Milltek Catless|RNS-E|Euro RS4 Flat bottom Steering Wheel Sold:E46 323i |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 06:17 PM | #50 | |
Major General
1903
Rep 5,678
Posts |
Quote:
M3 - Very good DD (8/10) with great track type performance (10/10) C63 - Great DD (10/10) with with very good track performance (8/10) I had two M3s as DDs and they were great cars and I loved them. The C63 is a more versatile DD and a little more fun outside of a track environment due to its sound, torque and techno gadgets. The M3 still a strong DD but with a bias towards weekend track car and is a little more oriented that way. The high strung, high revving M3 engine is built for track use first and DD duties second IMO. The C63 engine with its low end grunt and significant power has track usage as a secondary consideration IMO. Both are great in either venue but each has a slight edge in one place versus the other.
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery 2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT 2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT 2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 06:18 PM | #51 |
Major General
1903
Rep 5,678
Posts |
If that's all you are hearing then you aren't listening.
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery 2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT 2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT 2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3 |
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 06:43 PM | #52 | |
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
First, I don't think you get it when you are discussing low-end torque and its usefulness. This is not about wasting somebody else off a light. This is about "lazy speed", meaning you can pull away effortlessly (always a plus) at low rpm without any frantic behavior on the car's part, thereby avoiding any unwanted attention - from other drivers, passengers, passersby, or the law. Second, we are talking comparisons between exceedingly high performance cars here, not between an M3 and a Camry four. The M3 is absolutely fine in everyday driving - until you compare it to a 1M, C63, etc. They're just even more fine around town or in traffic. No biggie, from my point of view, but the torque thing is real. Last, if the current M3 made more torque down low (same power up top), people would love it even more - even you. Not only would it be livelier around town, it would haul ass (comparatively speaking) in top gear on the highway. That's always a pleasure, for every driver. See that hole in traffic? Just step on it, and don't bother wasting the second or so it takes for an aggressive downshift. By the way, the M3 is already pretty damned good in top gear, but more would be better, doncha think? Bruce PS: No disrespect intended. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 06:57 PM | #53 | |
Brigadier General
1967
Rep 4,213
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 07:35 PM | #54 | ||
Colonel
1097
Rep 2,287
Posts |
Quote:
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 07:36 PM | #55 |
Brigadier General
1967
Rep 4,213
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 07:49 PM | #56 |
Banned
49
Rep 1,922
Posts |
I tried to get above 5000rpm without breaking any laws or driving like a douche, couldn't do it. At about 4500rpm in just about any gear I'm breaking the law in just about every way. If I granny shift at 2500-3000, I'm within the law.
For the average person, an M3 has plenty of power for a daily driver, actually too much. c63 on the other hand, it's a tire shredder, you will never use all the power on tap. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 07:50 PM | #57 | |
Female driving enthusiast :P
76
Rep 2,308
Posts
Drives: Bimmer
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
Quote:
I feel the M3 has plenty of torque as a DD but the C63 AMG has insane power, which must make being pushed back in your seat in any gear at any time very fun. When the new M3 arrives, assuming it is just as good a driver's car, I know I will love that additional torque. As well as the much improved fuel economy. Although the reliability of those turbo engines could be worse...
__________________
2013 M3 coupe (Azurite Black, Black, Piano Black)
+ miata nut (2 miatas) + Mk6 GTI 5-door hatch (our mini-SUV ) |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 08:33 PM | #58 | |
Brigadier General
97
Rep 3,246
Posts |
Quote:
Coming from crotch rockets I love the high strung engine. This is why I bot THIS car and the distinguishing characteristic for me was its track prowess. I'll take high revs over high torque in that environment, but as always different strokes for different folks.
__________________
mods: track ready stuff
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-05-2012, 10:42 PM | #59 | |
Colonel
35
Rep 2,406
Posts |
i understand you are trying to say that the merc has more torque than the m3 and i don't argue that. but the way you put it is a bit misleading for some members because you make it sounds like the m3 torque is a problem on the street and that you need to rev the hell out of it to get to decent speed. it isn't a problem at all IMO. infact i thin it has more than enough torque on the street even at 4-5k rpm.
i don't understand the part about not having to downshift? seriously? how hard is it to downshift and pass someone? shifting is part of the fun even on the street. if you are too lazy to do the shifting, then might as well just buy the DCT and put it into auto mode, it will downshift for you anytime you want without you doing anything. see that hole, just floor the gas pedal and it will downshift instantly for you. i'm not a fan of the m3 by any mean (you guys know i'm into the gtr now) but bruce you sounds like are you are on here just to nicpic anythying you can find. Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 03:56 AM | #60 | |
Major General
1903
Rep 5,678
Posts |
Quote:
I would place a very large bet that anyone who drives a C63 for a week would fall in love with the power and torque of the engine... if they put aside their preconcieved bias, fanboyism, etc. That does not mean they would decide it was a better DD necessarily but they absolutely would understand and agree that accessible, significant and allows "on" torque was a hugely fun and very desirable characteristic and the M3 would be an even better DD than it is if it had more throughout the rev range. Arguing otherwise is just being defensive or not having experienced anything else. Again, this isn't a criticism of the M3 or saying it is necessarily lacking torque... it is saying a great car would be even better with more. Put another way... if BMW offered the M3 in 295 ft/lb and 400 ft/lb models for the same price (and otherwise the same car) no one would honestly take the 295 ft/lb model. An M3 with a better exhaust (say the performance exhaust) and 400 ft.lbs of torque on tap would smoke a C63 coupe as a DD IMO because the cars are otherwise fairly similar but the M3 is a little lighter and nimble.
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery 2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT 2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT 2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3 Last edited by gthal; 01-06-2012 at 04:05 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 06:58 AM | #61 | |
Colonel
1097
Rep 2,287
Posts |
Quote:
Granted - as effortless as a C63? Of course not. Sufficient torque at the wheels for DD purposes? Definitely. All other factors being equal, would I like even more torque? Of course I would - who wouldn't? Despite the foregoing, any regrets having the M3 as DD instead of C63? No (again though, I'm sure I would love driving the C63 as well - I just happen to like the M3 more)... |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 08:05 AM | #62 | |
Brigadier General
1967
Rep 4,213
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 09:12 AM | #63 | |||
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
What part of "The M3 is absolutely fine in everyday driving - until you compare it to a 1M, C63, etc. They're just even more fine around town or in traffic." didn't you get. Quote:
That second may cost you the opportunity. In that context, yes, pretty much any auto will be better on the street than pretty much any stick, but more torque reduces or eliminates the need for a hasty downshift. Sooner or later, I suppose I'll succumb and buy an automatic for my personal use, but I'm not yet mature enough. The last auto I bought for myself was a '70 Buick GS 455 Stage I, and I sold it after less than two years. Fast, but way too boring. Quote:
See, if I were into picking nits, I'd tell you to learn how to spell "nitpick anything", but I won't. Bruce Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 01-06-2012 at 09:18 AM.. |
|||
Appreciate
0
|
01-07-2012, 12:11 AM | #64 | |
Colonel
35
Rep 2,406
Posts |
but if the m3 comes with 400lb of tq, it will be just another c63 amg. you won't have the screaming character of the current m3 anymore.
porsche gt3 rs doesn't produce that much torque, f430, etc......m3 is similar in power delivery to these cars. I'm willing to bet if bmw went the merc route with big displacement engine, sale number will plumet even harder. Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-07-2012, 12:16 AM | #65 | |
Colonel
35
Rep 2,406
Posts |
who would worry about loosing 1/10th of a second to get through that hole in street traffic. sounds like a douche bag driving style to me at best. i've seen people in civics or jetta did this all the time yet those car are even slower than the m3.
when i had my e46 m3 (less torque than current m3), never really has issues getting through that hole in traffic like you described. what you said sounds very extreme like in a life and death situation that someone needs to pass through traffic IMO. not realistic. anyway, let's move on as everyone has their own opinion. Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-07-2012, 04:06 AM | #66 | |
Major General
1903
Rep 5,678
Posts |
Quote:
Having a 400 ft/lbs torque M3 would NOT make it just another C63. Who said it couldn't still be a screamer? Also, presuming that the "character" of the M3 is somehow more special than other cars screams bias. Sure, the character may be something you like but who is to say the general population agree. There are lots of "special" cars out there with different character to the M3. Special is in the eye of the beholder. To say the sales of an M3 with more torque would drop as the car somehow would become less special is wrong IMO. 95% of the buying public absolutlely like torque and don't give a rats ass about the "special" character of the M3. My guess is it would get even better reviews (if that's possible) and have higher sales. You forget that the group of hardcore, traditionalist M3 buyers is tiny compared to those buying M3s. The next gen M3 will have a VERY different character than the current and past M3s and I bet (economy aside) it will outsell the current generation in spite of the traditionalists (who represent a small, small portion of the M3 buying public) screaming murder. Anyway, saying that more torque in the M3 would make if have less character and would be bad shouts bias and fanboyism. I can (and do) understand how many people would prefer the current M3 to other cars like the C63 but I saying that if you added more torque to the M3 it becomes less appealing is... well... silly I stand by my opinion that 98% of us would choose and M3 with more torque all else being equal. Wanting a car with lower torque may be true for a very, very, very small portion of M3 owners who are diehard traditionalists and for many of those folks, the E46 M3 is probably the better choice anyway (E92 is too soft). Remember when a V8 was considered blasphemy for the M3 because it was not in the "character" of the M3... well, it's funny how forward progress made most of the naysayers forgot all about their V8 concerns. Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. We are all allowed to have our own opinion (even if mine is right j/k).
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery 2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT 2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT 2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3 Last edited by gthal; 01-07-2012 at 04:33 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|