|
|
01-11-2013, 06:38 PM | #1 |
Private First Class
10
Rep 126
Posts |
Proposal to determine winner of the tuner wars
Like all of you I've been following the 400whp thread with a mixture of interest and amusement. I'm pretty convinced that 400whp is not possible with bolt ons and tunes, but I do feel that threshold is attainable with schrick cams in addition to the standard bolt ons. Are there any of the tuners that frequent this forum capable of proving a tune for the 2 versions of the cams on the stock dme? To my way of thinking this would be an excellent way to differentiate between those who know the s65, and those who are good marketers.
|
01-11-2013, 07:15 PM | #3 | |
Private First Class
10
Rep 126
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 08:17 PM | #4 |
E46 + E90 + F80
192
Rep 2,894
Posts
Drives: E46 + E90 + F80
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois
|
I would LOVE to see the results of someone installing cams on the S65B40 here in the States. Looking at your signature, have you asked Evolve Automotive if they can do it?
They are tuning a lot of cam'd S54B32s, S62B50s, and S85B50s. Granted all different motors and DMEs, they seem well versed in tuning next level modified NA motors. Keep us posted on if you find any other tuners who have proper calibrations and solutions.
__________________
F80 M3 DCT|Alpine White . Black Leather | My Build Thread
E90 M3 DCT|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth | My Build Thread E46 M3 6MT|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather | My Build Thread |
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 08:22 PM | #5 |
Lieutenant General
5231
Rep 10,614
Posts |
I think 400 rwhp on a Dynojet in SAE is obtainable from a stock block S65 in an E9xM3 with bolt on mods short of cams, and a tune. Two such results have already been posted. EAS posted a dyno of one car, making 403 rwhp and Mike Benvo posted a dyno of his car, making 402 rwhp.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 08:29 PM | #6 | |
Private First Class
10
Rep 126
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 08:32 PM | #7 | |
Private First Class
10
Rep 126
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 08:41 PM | #8 |
Lieutenant General
5231
Rep 10,614
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 08:57 PM | #9 |
Lieutenant
61
Rep 480
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 09:30 PM | #11 |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
3387
Rep 7,541
Posts |
Any competent tuner should be able to tune the car for different camshafts on the dyno.
Pretty easy - only 4 vanos maps. Inlet cam warm and cold, and exhaust cam warm and cold. You can change the scaling on the axis if you need more definition in certain areas. The camshaft maps are in targeted degrees, so you can designate where you want the cam to move based on RPM and load. Tuned an RDSport stroker a couple months ago and the owner couldn't believe the difference after driving the car. I think this whole tuner war idea is stupid personally. As I've said a million times before, chasing numbers is a waste of time. Comparing dynos is a waste of time. Looking at DELTAS on the SAME car is the only measure of value. You might have a car make 400whp on one dyno and 350whp on another. There are simply too many variables at play. Dyno operators can also skew results in their favor, which is why I ALWAYS use a third party to run the dyno, and have no involvement myself. You can make a dyno queen that will make more power by desensitizing knock sensors and a few other tricks. Will the power stay there? No. So who wins the war? The car that puts down 400whp on the dyno and a week later makes less than stock? Or the car that does 385whp consistently and reliably over long periods of time? Too much focus on pure numbers instead of delta gains. Too much focus on numbers instead of smoothness and drivability. Too much focus on WOT when you spend 90% of the time driving in part throttle. Tuning this DME is not rocket science, it's a matter of having the factory information and knowing what to do with it. I bet most tuners don't have some of the factory information that I do. All I care is that all of my customers are happy, and I can say without a doubt that I haven't had a single complaint. I've retuned cars with various other software time and time again with nothing but positive results. I still need to post in that 400whp thread when I have time to address a few comments in there. But for now I'm going to enjoy my last night in Las Vegas and get to that when I return to LA. Stop wasting your time chasing numbers. It makes zero sense. Enjoy your car and your mods instead, whichever tuner you decide to go with.
__________________
-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |----- ----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133---- |
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 09:39 PM | #13 | |
Private First Class
10
Rep 126
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 09:48 PM | #14 | |||
E46 + E90 + F80
192
Rep 2,894
Posts
Drives: E46 + E90 + F80
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois
|
Quote:
Definitely keep us posted on what Sal@Evolve says. I'd be curious to hear his response. Quote:
All I know is that Evolve Automotive from the UK will be tuning my Schrick 288/280 Cam'd S54B32, hopefully by Spring time! Quote:
I totally forgot that you tuned a RD Sport Stroker Motor! Please share details either through PM or another thread! This message forum needs more information on monster NA builds instead of the boosted stuff, haha. Please install cams on your beautiful E90 M3! It would be nice to see a change of pace around here. Enjoy your last night in Vegas and stay safe!
__________________
F80 M3 DCT|Alpine White . Black Leather | My Build Thread
E90 M3 DCT|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth | My Build Thread E46 M3 6MT|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather | My Build Thread |
|||
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 09:48 PM | #15 | |
Brigadier General
1468
Rep 3,157
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 09:58 PM | #16 | |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
3387
Rep 7,541
Posts |
Quote:
I'm really considering them for my car too.. but for now, I have about 48K on the clock and full warranty + maintenance until April of 2014. I can't justify pulling the motor apart until I'm in the warranty free zone. I had custom FI cams made by Schrick for my supercharged 330 and it made a gigantic difference. My Turbo 7 series also has a custom camshaft for the GT35 BB turbo I'm running on it at 14 PSI. I can see cams in the future for the M3 too. I remember back in the day seeing great videos of E46 M3's with cams revving to 9,000 RPM. I think we need to start a petition for 93+ octane gas here in CA. It's either have nice weather and 91, or not the best weather and 93. I guess you can't win every battle!
__________________
-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |----- ----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133---- |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 10:18 PM | #17 |
Rocket Scientist
33
Rep 948
Posts |
__________________
2015 BMW M5 Sedan Returned to BMW at end of lease.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 10:49 PM | #19 | |
E46 + E90 + F80
192
Rep 2,894
Posts
Drives: E46 + E90 + F80
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois
|
Quote:
Do you already have some baseline dyno data to compare to the cams and retune? May I ask who will be doing the tuning?
__________________
F80 M3 DCT|Alpine White . Black Leather | My Build Thread
E90 M3 DCT|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth | My Build Thread E46 M3 6MT|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather | My Build Thread |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 10:59 PM | #20 | |
1122
Rep 7,690
Posts |
Quote:
Aj will be tuning it since i dont trust anyone else.Not saying any others are bad but I have been dealing with Roman and Aj for a while and Aj is an excellent tuner and great person to deal with. Will start a new thread with the results soon |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 11:03 PM | #21 | |
E46 + E90 + F80
192
Rep 2,894
Posts
Drives: E46 + E90 + F80
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois
|
Quote:
I have been waiting for who knows how long for someone to post some dynos with cams. Best of luck to you all. I'm sure it will turn out great. Knowing how you collect all your data and write threads, I'm sure it will be worth the wait.
__________________
F80 M3 DCT|Alpine White . Black Leather | My Build Thread
E90 M3 DCT|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth | My Build Thread E46 M3 6MT|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather | My Build Thread |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2013, 11:08 PM | #22 | |
1122
Rep 7,690
Posts |
Quote:
May be i will do cams soon too to get a little more power |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|