Will 15W 50 be okay?

[f32458]

Mobil 1 15W 50 I bought 18 bottles.

[Chriskm3]

What brand is it ? I know castrol makes the 10 60 BMW m specific.

[m6pwr]

The viscosity may be ok - - close enough to 10w60 - - but what about other performance aspects of the oil. Is it rated BMW LL01? Not sure that is even relevant since the TWS is made exclusively for the naturally aspirated M3/M5 and it does not carry the BMW LL01 license. It's really tough for any of us to predict how the Mobil would perform in your M3. If it were me, I wouldn't gamble on using it.

[thekurgan]

I pulled this from Turner's site:

We have been using RedLine 15w50 Oil in our street cars and race cars for years. Hands-down, it is the Number One brand of high performance lubricant for BMWs. The ultimate high-temperature protection in Red Line engine oils recommended for street use. Good for engines that regularly run very high oil temperatures. Best for engines that run large clearances such as air-cooled engines or large-displacement, all-out racing engines that see occasional street use. Provides 25% more viscosity in bearings than petroleum 20W-50s. Not recommended for use in cold climates where temperatures are at or below 10°F or -12°C. Not recommended for street use in production engines that see sustained oil temperatures below 225°F (those engines should use Red Line 10W-30 or 10W-40). Turner Motorsport recommends this oil in the E30 M3 during the summer and for track-use.

[=[monkey]=]

Originally Posted by f32458

Mobil 1 15W 50 I bought 18 bottles.

He stated mobil 1

[THE TECH]

I would definitely NOT use it.

[s65e90]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

I would definitely NOT use it.

it's not that bad; actually a good oil Closest to a 10w 60 and I wouldn't hesitate to use it if out of warranty or in a jam.



FYI here's an analysis on a M5 engine


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...2862511&page=1

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by s65e90

it's not that bad. Closest to a 10w 60



FYI


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...2862511&page=1

Doesn't matter how close it is. The BMW manual clearly states that no other oil should be used unless it is an emergency situation.

[s65e90]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Doesn't matter how close it is. The BMW manual clearly states that no other oil should be used unless it is an emergency situation.

this debate has been ongoing forever so I won't add to it, but if you believe everything in that manual I would also be perplexed. that being said, I use 10 60, but don't see problems with alternatives as their is proof out there of people using other weights in M cars w/ no issues. In fact if I lived in a cold climate I too would consider a switch.

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Doesn't matter how close it is. The BMW manual clearly states that no other oil should be used unless it is an emergency situation.

BMW has a working relationship with Castrol. Translate that to business relationship. Interpret that any way you like. That Mobil 1 is good oil and I would venture to say probably better than the TWS BMW recommends for our cars. I'll stick with Redline; Thank you very much. 5W-30 mixed with 40W race.

All that being said, if you take decent care of your car you could probably run dino oil in it and make it last 150k miles. You'd just have to change it out more often.

[f32458]

I am going to refund the them. Too risky. How many quart required on the S65?

[m6pwr]

Originally Posted by f32458

I am going to refund the them. Too risky. How many quart required on the S65?

Sound decision. I think most pour in 8.25 to 8.5 bottles (liters) of TWS in order not to overfill. BMW's capacity spec is 8.8 liters for oil and filter.

I agree with many of the things that Radiation Joe has said. BMW does have a working/business relationship with Castrol. So does VW and Audi. In fact, most of the major car/truck mfrs in Europe and the US have a working relationship with a lubricant partner. Daimler and Porsche use/recommend Mobil 1. Many of the French oems use/recommend Total/Elf. Ferrari (since the beginning of Ferrari) use/recommend Shell (Pennzoil in the US).

I don't think this "business relationship" diminishes the quality of the lubricants in any way. In fact I think it's quite the opposite. There's a slide presentation floating around on the internet by Lubrizol Corp. ( a major supplier to oil companies of the various additive packs used in motor oil). It's called "The Price of Performance" and describes the diligence (viz. time and money - - lots of money) oems and their lubricant partners spend developing the approval specs (e.g. BMW LL01) and recommended oils for their products. There's also a video of a presentation given by a chemist with Afton Chemicals (big add pack supplier like Lubrizol). The chemist describes the same working relationship between oems and their lubricant partners as producing what he calls "designer oils" (e.g. TWS). Lubricant chemists/chemical engineers, tribologists, and the oem engine development engineers working as a team to develop an oil tailor made for their engine or familiy of engines. What's wrong with that?

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by s65e90

this debate has been ongoing forever so I won't add to it, but if you believe everything in that manual I would also be perplexed. that being said, I use 10 60, but don't see problems with alternatives as their is proof out there of people using other weights in M cars w/ no issues. In fact if I lived in a cold climate I too would consider a switch.

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

BMW has a working relationship with Castrol. Translate that to business relationship. Interpret that any way you like. That Mobil 1 is good oil and I would venture to say probably better than the TWS BMW recommends for our cars. I'll stick with Redline; Thank you very much. 5W-30 mixed with 40W race.

All that being said, if you take decent care of your car you could probably run dino oil in it and make it last 150k miles. You'd just have to change it out more often.

Yes, there is profit in it. At the end of the day though it's not worth the trouble or issues to use something different. With the service change intervals, there is really no reason at all to use something else.

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Yes, there is profit in it. At the end of the day though it's not worth the trouble or issues to use something different. With the service change intervals, there is really no reason at all to use something else.

There are reasons and that is why some of us run different oils. The viscosity of the TWS is ridiculous. It's so thick that it shears down to 50 weight during normal use. Take it to track and it probably ends up even lower. I can run 40W Redline at the track for 40 hours and still have 40W when I'm done. On the street, I run what BMW originally designed these engines to run; 5W-30.

BMW builds tight tolerance engines. 30W oil is appropriate for engines built this way. The TWS is an insurance policy by BMW for people who take their cars to the track with 12k miles on an oil fill. When I built a hi-po M10 many years back, I built it with very loose (by BMW standards) clearances. I ran 50W oil in that one. The S65 is built for 30 or 40 weight oil.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Yes, there is profit in it. At the end of the day though it's not worth the trouble or issues to use something different. With the service change intervals, there is really no reason at all to use something else.

Agreed. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

There are reasons and that is why some of us run different oils. The viscosity of the TWS is ridiculous. It's so thick that it shears down to 50 weight during normal use. Take it to track and it probably ends up even lower. I can run 40W Redline at the track for 40 hours and still have 40W when I'm done. On the street, I run what BMW originally designed these engines to run; 5W-30.

BMW builds tight tolerance engines. 30W oil is appropriate for engines built this way. The TWS is an insurance policy by BMW for people who take their cars to the track with 12k miles on an oil fill. When I built a hi-po M10 many years back, I built it with very loose (by BMW standards) clearances. I ran 50W oil in that one. The S65 is built for 30 or 40 weight oil.

While you may find a reason not to run the oil specified, I really don't see the need to go out of the way to do so. You are pretty much talking from a track oriented use only. The average user doesn't need to use something different just for the sake of it. Redline isn't any easier to acquire than the Castrol so there is no benefit there from a strictly ease of purchase standpoint. Can you use another oil and not kill the car? Sure you can. Should you? I can't think of a reason why. Like I said, with the oil change intervals being so long, the costs of using something else just don't make much sense in my mind.

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

While you may find a reason not to run the oil specified, I really don't see the need to go out of the way to do so. You are pretty much talking from a track oriented use only. The average user doesn't need to use something different just for the sake of it. Redline isn't any easier to acquire than the Castrol so there is no benefit there from a strictly ease of purchase standpoint. Can you use another oil and not kill the car? Sure you can. Should you? I can't think of a reason why. Like I said, with the oil change intervals being so long, the costs of using something else just don't make much sense in my mind.

I agree with your point that most people aren't going to see any difference, so why change. I'm an engineer by trade and it drives me crazy to see things done because "it doesn't make any difference". Running the recommended TWS isn't going to hurt anyone's engine. However, the thinner 5W-30 oils do offer better start-up protection and slightly lower friction, yielding better efficiency. There are also better oils than TWS for high temperature use.

[Radiation Joe]

I started a thread under gasoline engine used oil analyses at Bobistheoilguy.com. One of the best responses was this:

Well, Ford fitted the BOSS 302 with an oil cooler (the M3 has an oil cooler too) and still bumped the oil grade up to 5w-50. My guess is that, when tracked HARD, they are seeing oil temperatures that are elevated high enough to warrant the use of the much heavier oil.

With BMW, I think its a combination of the above, mixed with the fact that TWS has been their Unicorn Urine of choice for what has got to be close to 20 years now. It's a product that BMW Motorsport is familiar with in respect to its performance and operating characteristics and has been used extensively by them in their race program cars. They know how it works. So even if this engine perhaps doesn't require something QUITE so heavy, they are still safe recommending it, and it is widely available at all BMW dealerships, so service under warranty is easy as well.

Deviating from that recommendation, given that known performance at that point is NOT guaranteed, is a gamble. If the car is under warranty, it certainly isn't something I'd be willing to do, no matter how many people on the Internet told me to run something else.

[s65e90]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

While you may find a reason not to run the oil specified, I really don't see the need to go out of the way to do so. You are pretty much talking from a track oriented use only. The average user doesn't need to use something different just for the sake of it. Redline isn't any easier to acquire than the Castrol so there is no benefit there from a strictly ease of purchase standpoint. Can you use another oil and not kill the car? Sure you can. Should you? I can't think of a reason why. Like I said, with the oil change intervals being so long, the costs of using something else just don't make much sense in my mind.

FYI longer drain intervals were only introduced under the free maintenance program. Makes sense= free service means less service

[Z K]

Considering there are 10w60 alternative oils such as Redline and Lubro Moly, you don't have to stick to TWS to get the 10w60 requirement.

I would not run a different weight however unless the car is used for track or something other than the general usage that BMW has designed TWS for.

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by Z K

Considering there are 10w60 alternative oils such as Redline and Lubro Moly, you don't have to stick to TWS to get the 10w60 requirement.

I would not run a different weight however unless the car is used for track or something other than the general usage that BMW has designed TWS for.

The whole point of the TWS is if you track. It was designed for severe duty. If you don't track the car or drive at 150mph for 10 minutes at a time, you should be running the standard 5W-30 that BMW recommends for the rest of their cars. The TWS offers no additional protection and most probably less than the standard oil under normal driving conditions.