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12-02-2008, 11:33 PM | #1 | |||
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CTS-V vs M5 vs C63....
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12-03-2008, 02:54 AM | #2 |
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I have seen significantly better numbers from the M5. One test does not provide enough natural variation to see a clear winner. This variation of results will tell you with equal drivers which car will typically win. You can see the wide spread of result we have kept track of for the M3 here
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12-03-2008, 03:02 AM | #3 | |
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We have seen better numbers for every car tested here. They are accurate, they were tested at the same time at the same place. The M5 is clearly capable of better, each of them are. If you look at the numbers you see what we generally know. The M5 is weak from a stop and hard to launch. However, once moving it is the fastest car out of the bunch. The C63 is easy to launch but has the lowest trap speed numbers. It is the weakest up top but strong from a stop with that big motor. The CTS-V is all around a beast. |
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12-03-2008, 04:38 AM | #4 | |
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I am in agreement with sticky on this one. The M5 is the trickier to get moving though should be quickest after the ton (not that these opportunities appear to often). The real surprise was the lap time, this is a Caddy for the new millenium, one that handles instead of walloping from corner to corner. Did read the whole article, did the order run with CTS-V voted the winner followed by C63 and the M5 bring up the rear? |
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12-03-2008, 06:17 AM | #6 | ||
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I see your point. The trap speed on the M5 was highest between the trio. Maybe, if you kept going above the 1/4 mile mark, the M5 will take over the trio. About the 1/4 mile, maybe a set of stickier tyres would have done a better job in getting out of the hole. Model: M5 1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 12.8 @ 115.1 Model: CTS-V 1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 12.4 @ 114.7 Model: C63 AMG 1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 12.6 @ 112.3 Edit: I did check the here and this is what I have been looking for ages. I am so obsessed with these numbers that I was thinking of writting them down but now I dont need to and I can check and update on your thread. I know these numbers dont mean anything in real life situaton but it does give you an idea of how capable they are. So, thank you Swamp....smart thinking on the behalf gathering all the 1/4 mil2, 0-200km, 200-0, etc info and putting it in one thread Quote:
It doesnt look that bad but I do agree on the performance. It's a hell of a car for that price. Plus, it's supercharged so it can be tuned further if you want to
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12-03-2008, 08:42 AM | #7 |
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Heinricy(CTS-V) and Auberlein(M5) both went at it head to head on a track and the times were a wash on a prior issue of a popular car mag (can't remember which one). That was a very telling comparison, since both professional drivers are extremely familiar with their respective cars.
Conclusion of the discussion several months ago on the M5board...the M5 is a 4 year old car, and the CTS-V had to demonstrate clear superiority, which it did not in that comparison. The one aspect that is a clear advantage is the price of the car. The C63 does not belong in this comparison, different class of car. It is smaller and lighter, of course it is going to be more nimble.
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12-03-2008, 10:47 AM | #8 | |
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12-03-2008, 11:01 AM | #9 | |
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I don't mind M5 drivers consoling themselves any way they can, but to say that the Cadillac is four years newer and thus must demonstrate a bigger performance difference is pretty damned weak. In addition, the 1.1 second difference at Willow (again while head to head) suggests a clear superiority for those of us who don't have an axe to grind. Plus, of course, you don't have to get iDrive. Bruce |
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12-03-2008, 11:10 AM | #10 |
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Bruce,
You could include the 14 seconds improvement at the Nurburgring to both Willow and the Road & Track test victories for the Caddy. The CTS-V is an impressive (Ugly looking) car. |
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12-03-2008, 11:53 AM | #11 | |
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The real reason I'm asking is that we both know how advantageous race belts are in such a situation. Instead of bracing and bruising yourself against various interior bits, you're more or less sitting there as if it were a day at the office by comparison. My standard routine was to tighten the five-point belts in the pits until they were very uncomfortable, then tighten them again pretty much to the limit of my strength after the warmup lap. If SportAuto routinely installs multi-point belts for their tests (which they damned well ought to), then we're talking a bit more apples to apples in terms of comparing the cars. Of course, it clearly seems that the Cadillac has the performance advantage, regardless. In regard to how the car looks, beauty is obviously in the eyes of the beholder, but I can tell you that in person, the car is very impressive to me. Bruce |
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12-03-2008, 01:01 PM | #12 | |
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To illustrate this point, Top Gear compared some classic sports cars (I think an old Aston, and some other classic) with a current generation Honda. The Honda destroyed both of those cars in sheer performance. So you cannot discount the advantage of time and technological advances. I will agree, obviously, that the CTS-V is the better performing car than the M both objectively and subjectively. Hell, I'm probably going to get the CTS-V when my lease is up, assuming the next generation M5 doesn't blow it out of the water. Shih-han
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12-03-2008, 01:12 PM | #13 |
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There is one thing that all the other M5 rivals had over the BMW during their development. That is the M5 as a reference point and yard stick to guage their progress.
When you consider that only the RS6 and Caddy have really improved over what BMW achieve it's really says something about BMW's achieve. |
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12-03-2008, 02:26 PM | #14 |
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Cadillac targets the M5 and develops a sedan that outperforms it (by either a smidge or more depending on which comparison you believe) for $30K less. Their engineers deserve a bravo for that, no question.
The real question is: Are you willing to buy a $60K, techno-laden sedan from a company teetering on the brink of bankruptcy knowing GM's track record for first year model releases?
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12-03-2008, 04:31 PM | #15 | |
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But high tech? The CTS-V is an OHV two-valve engine with a blower bolted on it. High-tech advances are not part of this deal. That's one of the reasons it can be sold for such a price. Bruce |
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12-03-2008, 04:45 PM | #16 | |
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As far as GM's current track record is concerned, I'd match it against BMW's any day. Bankruptcy? Not to turn this into another kind of forum, but I personally believe GM should be allowed to go into receivership, and in spite of GM's current record of developing good products out of the box (CTS, Malibu, G8, various trucks, etc.), we'll get more and better product from them. And with the caveat that my 401K/IRAs are now down enough so it's just not the time for such a move, yes, I'd buy one. Maybe in a couple of years when one comes off lease. Bruce |
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12-03-2008, 05:19 PM | #17 | |
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It all depends what you class as hi-tech, I think cylinder head technology peaked with the side-valve. If everyone gets hung up on the price then the technical achieves and differences of each brand become irrelevance. You can't expect something which is homegrown to be priced the same as something which is manufactured in another country and facing duty, freight, different wage and manufacturing costs, etc to compete on price. A perfect example of this is the ZR1, in the UK it's over £100K. Lets just look at the achievements of each and leave to retail price at the showroom door. P.S. I hate the looks (externally) but you can't knock the car, it won over James May which is an achievement in it's own right. If they could tone down the chrome and it's angular design I reckon it's a car which could have found favour in Europe, but as it is I doubt sales outside of the States will be limited to your overseas Forces. |
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12-03-2008, 07:01 PM | #18 |
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I just add to the list and maintain and clean it a bit. It wasn't really my idea. Go ahead and add to it as you like. Please put new results in blue, southlight started that and it is really convenvient.
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12-03-2008, 07:08 PM | #19 | |
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12-04-2008, 02:42 AM | #20 | |||
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12-04-2008, 07:40 AM | #21 | |||
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12-04-2008, 11:58 AM | #22 | ||
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I think you're slightly defensive from going back and forth with swamp ad nauseam on other topics. I'm rarely one to belabor a point. Believe me, I'm lazy. I type as little as possible and only try to respond to what you wrote out of respect for you taking the time to write it.
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