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      06-29-2011, 08:04 PM   #1
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Balancing Issue

Ok, so i've had my wheels/tires checked three times now and road force balance checked. Twice was a reputable shop, which was regular balancing on a GSP9700. Then the dealer re checked its road force balance and rebalanced the tires. They did not adjust the tires to the wheels because all the readouts were below 20lbs. To be exact, the readouts were 20, 17, 7, 15. However i'm still getting a pretty good amount of vibrations after 70ish MPH. I can prolly live with it but it does get annoying.

Any ideas?

Tires/wheels specs:

20x9 on 255/30/20 Vreds Ultrac Sessanta
20x10.5 on 295/25/20 Vreda Ultrac Sessanta
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      06-29-2011, 09:02 PM   #2
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Not familiar with these tires but when I switched from PS2's to re-11's I had the same issue with 2 and 14 lbs in front! Turns out it's flat-spotting due to the soft compound- after 20-30 mins at highway speeds vibration goes down ~ 90%. Not happy and will get pss's nexy spring.
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      06-29-2011, 09:07 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff4598 View Post
Not familiar with these tires but when I switched from PS2's to re-11's I had the same issue with 2 and 14 lbs in front! Turns out it's flat-spotting due to the soft compound- after 20-30 mins at highway speeds vibration goes down ~ 90%. Not happy and will get pss's nexy spring.
To be honest i've thought of giving the tires a good break in period. They have a bit less than 400 miles on them, but I dont know. Ive driven well over 10 miles on highway and they still vibrate.
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      06-29-2011, 10:14 PM   #4
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Do u have spacers ?
Are the old weights being removed before re-balancing ?
Are the wheels straight ? if YES,how do you know that they are straight ??
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      06-29-2011, 11:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
Do u have spacers ?
Are the old weights being removed before re-balancing ?
Are the wheels straight ? if YES,how do you know that they are straight ??
Yes, I have 5mm spacers front, 3mm spacers rear. I'm 100% sure they're not the cause of the problem. Firstly because they were on my previous 19" wheels and they were no issue, secondly because they're merely 5/3mm, the wheels are hubcentric and still rest on the actual hub. Weights are being removed, thats the first thing I double checked.

I'm not sure what you mean by if my wheels are straight. You mean alignment-wise? If so, yes, although the car is pulling more to the right, and I suspect its got to do with the balancing as well (by this I mean theres some tire pull happening). If you mean by straight as in no damage to the wheels, they're fine as I checked them myself before mounting the tires.

Thanks for the ideas. I'm planning to go to the dealer tomorrow and get it re checked, and make sure they take the road force to at least around 10 lbs.
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      06-30-2011, 12:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamm3k View Post
Yes, I have 5mm spacers front, 3mm spacers rear. I'm 100% sure they're not the cause of the problem. Firstly because they were on my previous 19" wheels and they were no issue, secondly because they're merely 5/3mm, the wheels are hubcentric and still rest on the actual hub. Weights are being removed, thats the first thing I double checked.

I'm not sure what you mean by if my wheels are straight. You mean alignment-wise? If so, yes, although the car is pulling more to the right, and I suspect its got to do with the balancing as well (by this I mean theres some tire pull happening). If you mean by straight as in no damage to the wheels, they're fine as I checked them myself before mounting the tires.

Thanks for the ideas. I'm planning to go to the dealer tomorrow and get it re checked, and make sure they take the road force to at least around 10 lbs.
before u go to the dealership:
Did u try the wheels on the car without spacers ?try that first and if u couldnt replicate the problem try to clean the contact surfaces and put them back on.may b there is dirt (sand off the road) between the 2 surfaces.
Also,what did you tq the wheels to and did u re-tq them after driving 40-50 miles ?
And yes i meant if they were bent and if you dont mind me asking,How did u check for bends in the wheels ???
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      06-30-2011, 12:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamm3k View Post
Ok, so i've had my wheels/tires checked three times now and road force balance checked. Twice was a reputable shop, which was regular balancing on a GSP9700. Then the dealer re checked its road force balance and rebalanced the tires. They did not adjust the tires to the wheels because all the readouts were below 20lbs. To be exact, the readouts were 20, 17, 7, 15. However i'm still getting a pretty good amount of vibrations after 70ish MPH. I can prolly live with it but it does get annoying.

Any ideas?

Tires/wheels specs:

20x9 on 255/30/20 Vreds Ultrac Sessanta
20x10.5 on 295/25/20 Vreda Ultrac Sessanta

if there no suspension damage and u are running hud centric ring, than its the tires. you bought a defects tire.
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      06-30-2011, 01:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
before u go to the dealership:
Did u try the wheels on the car without spacers ?try that first and if u couldnt replicate the problem try to clean the contact surfaces and put them back on.may b there is dirt (sand off the road) between the 2 surfaces.
Also,what did you tq the wheels to and did u re-tq them after driving 40-50 miles ?
And yes i meant if they were bent and if you dont mind me asking,How did u check for bends in the wheels ???
Hub surfaces were cleaned about a week ago when I installed the new wheels, I did it myself, so I'm pretty sure they were cleaned thoroughly. I haven't re torqued the wheels, hadn't really thought of that, but its been less than 50 miles, and they are torqued to 80lbs per my specifications, I specifically asked them to make sure they were torqued at that spec.

To be honest, I only inspected them with my eye (LOL). But considereing the road force numbers are all below 20 lbs, there's really no reason to think a wheel is bent or damaged.

To be honest, after much thought, I think, considering these are 20" wheels on pretty low profile tires, and coilovers, that road force specs should be as low as possible (the numbers were 20, 7, 15, 17... although they are below 20, they should be lower than that on a car like this, where there's a lot of "road feel"). Hopefully I can get my dealer to spend enough time on my wheels/tires tomorrow to bring the numbers down a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MienAce View Post
if there no suspension damage and u are running hud centric ring, than its the tires. you bought a defects tire.
No suspension damage, I'm pretty sure of that. I wouldn't consider defective tires just yet, I think, suspect, there's still something to do about balancing. Those road force numbers I was given should be lower.
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      06-30-2011, 02:53 AM   #9
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Give it a shot without spacers first anf id that doesnt work,have them lift the car in the air and spin the wheels and u should be able to see if there is any bends.keep us posted plz and good luck man !!!
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      06-30-2011, 11:56 AM   #10
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With those road force readings, the tires appear within reasonable spec, but obviously something is not right. It’s easy enough to remove the spacers and eliminate them as the culprit. So, what else rotates? Guess that would be tires, wheels, and rotors. Assuming no reason to suspect the rotors, you need a better diagnosis by a really good balancing/alignment shop. Sometimes, a “reputable” shop is not a really good shop. Get recommendations from local car clubs or track junkies, and take it somewhere else.
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      06-30-2011, 02:03 PM   #11
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went to the dealer today. I had the mechanic ride around with me (my service adviser has become a friend of mine). He took the car in and took his time making it right. Here are the readouts. These aren't the full readouts, he explained the rest to me, but the final readouts were:

Original Readouts: 15, 22

Final Readouts: 3, 14

Obviously after rotating the tire on the wheel he re balanced the wheels. I did 85ish MPH on the way back and there's ZERO shimming/vibration on the steering wheel.

I attached the paper so you guys get an idea of what the mechanics see when the road force balance.
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      06-30-2011, 04:03 PM   #12
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Perfect, sometimes rotating the tire on the wheel and rebalancing fixes the issue which means the tires are the problem but in ur case never get those tires again,get Super Sports next time !!!
Glad u sort it out tho !!!
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      06-30-2011, 04:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
Perfect, sometimes rotating the tire on the wheel and rebalancing fixes the issue which means the tires are the problem but in ur case never get those tires again,get Super Sports next time !!!
Glad u sort it out tho !!!
thanks for the help
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      06-30-2011, 10:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamm3k View Post
thanks for the help
u welcome man !!!
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      07-01-2011, 01:40 PM   #15
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why torque to 80?

I thought BMW was 88.5?
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      07-01-2011, 02:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
why torque to 80?

I thought BMW was 88.5?
You may be right. I've been torquing them at 80 lbs for years/miles now with no issues, and this car isn't really tracked, so I haven't really had any issues. I'll investigate this and see what the correct torque specs are.
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