Turner Titanium valved exhaust

[Bimmer Barney]

I don’t run the lame burble tunes. My mufflers failed because this system is poorly constructed.

[pitkin_g]

Burbles or no burbles, poor construction is the main issue that I agree with 100%

[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by pitkin_g

In addition, one of the theories was that the "burble" tune function can potentially cause muffler shocks/stress therefore contributing to cracking...... My tune is a No Burble tune (no failure for me yet!) and I am not sure if people with failures have burbles or not. Im not an expert on this but sounds somewhat logical especially with valves closed.....

Too many early real use failures documented by this Community to support the burble assertion...guarantee more failures have occurred, been reported to Turner/ECS aside from those not aware of M3Post experiences.

Turner/ECS decided to spec, build with the thinnest thickness Ti mat'l to weld/produce thereby reducing cost per unit, enhancing margins.

I was excited to buy based on early reviews...then the actual shared results spared me the hassles, costs now known. YMMV

M3Post guys saved me!
Many thanks to Bimmer Barney and others for their comprehensive reviews & follow-ups

If one is aware of high failure rate/risk, then that's a customer business decision. Apparently, most consumers do not have that information when purchasing from a BMW centric, trusted supplier.

Backfire - - Most buyers, this is an undesirable annoyance, along with added costs to remedy after spending +$2.2K Ti exhaust product.
Yet even to-date, Turner/ECS continues to knowingly market, sell POS 'as-is'.

I'm not a proponent of litigation; however, this product may be a rightful candidate for a Class Action suit
...where's Turner/ECS Accountability, Good Faith, Reputation concerns to customer base?

...comments?

[M3MATT]

In my call with ECS, they were “unaware of issues.” Unbelievable!!! Such a scummy company.
I don’t want to say we should do a class action, but it certainly would qualify for one.

They knowingly made the material far to thin to save money. Classic ECS move of fucking the customer over…

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by M3MATT

In my call with ECS, they were “unaware of issues.” Unbelievable!!! Such a scummy company.
I don’t want to say we should do a class action, but it certainly would qualify for one.

They knowingly made the material far to thin to save money. Classic ECS move of fucking the customer over…

i remember i said the same thing and the sales guy denied it or was "unaware"

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1281...2269506451719/

[M3MATT]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

i remember i said the same thing and the sales guy denied it or was "unaware"

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1281...2269506451719/

Interesting…

Has anyone else experienced this?

[GinTonic]

Originally Posted by M3MATT

In my call with ECS, they were “unaware of issues.” Unbelievable!!! Such a scummy company.
I don’t want to say we should do a class action, but it certainly would qualify for one.

They knowingly made the material far to thin to save money. Classic ECS move of fucking the customer over…

Wow. Must be a new guy.

[omgzirra_exe]

Thanks Bimmer Barney for the opportunity to get the Turner TI rear section.

We've begun repairing the exhaust system and fabricating support braces.

One common issue is the seam on the exhaust box splitting near the end cap and the clamped area. Fortunately, this can be fixed with welding.

Turner used thin gauges on the end caps, and the clamped muffler system didn't allow for metal expansion because they either undersized or oversized it... As a result, you get the Snapple bottle cap effect which causes the cracks over time.

While we can fix the side end caps with some careful work, I'll also be adding a three-point support brace from the tailpipe to the underside of the muffler to prevent future cracking.

if you're wondering why they didn't just centralized the piping from the chamber, Turner's decision not to centralize the piping was smart, as it would have made the system weaker.

On another note, the exhaust gases flow as expected when the valves are open, but interestingly with the valve closed, the upper pipe, where redirected gases flow, doesn't change color due to heat, as seen in the image. You would expect the same amount of color change.

Yes the rear section will be capped off and pressurized for the repairs.

[M3MATT]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

Thanks Bimmer Barney for the opportunity to get the Turner TI rear section.

We've begun repairing the exhaust system and fabricating support braces.

One common issue is the seam on the exhaust box splitting near the end cap and the clamped area. Fortunately, this can be fixed with welding.

Turner used thin gauges on the end caps, and the clamped muffler system didn't allow for metal expansion because they either undersized or oversized it... As a result, you get the Snapple bottle cap effect which causes the cracks over time.

While we can fix the side end caps with some careful work, I'll also be adding a three-point support brace from the tailpipe to the underside of the muffler to prevent future cracking.

if you're wondering why they didn't just centralized the piping from the chamber, Turner's decision not to centralize the piping was smart, as it would have made the system weaker.

On another note, the exhaust gases flow as expected when the valves are open, but interestingly with the valve closed, the upper pipe, where redirected gases flow, doesn't change color due to heat, as seen in the image. You would expect the same amount of color change.

Yes the rear section will be capped off and pressurized for the repairs.

Would this work for the ss system?

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by M3MATT

Would this work for the ss system?

correct, the SS version would be ALOT easier.

for titanium because there is carbon build up, its rather difficult to weld so some finessing will be required.. but not impossible.. just lower expectations.

i would say the same for the SS variants, but would be easier to weld..

[omgzirra_exe]

I wanted to provide an update on the finish repair and support gusset.

As mentioned earlier, the repair process wasn't straightforward due to carbon buildup in the chambers and around the end caps of the center section and piping. While it was doable and weldable, it's important to manage expectations as the welds may not be perfectly clean.

The crack has been repaired, and I plan to install it on Friday evening before the Pit+Paddock and BMWCCA meet on Saturday in Long Beach, CA. Anyone interested can take a look.

Regarding the support gusset/bracket/brace, it's designed to reduce load on the welds to prevent cracking. Although the exhaust I picked up wasn't damaged near those welds, I took preventative measures inspired by issues with E9X MPE Inconel/Titanium MPE F8X mufflers known for cracking near the welds. Especially the F8X design since the Turner one resembles it...

This approach should resolve concerns and help others avoid similar issues in the future. See the attached images for reference.

[M3MATT]

That brace is interesting to think of. I had cracking on the tail pipe exit (on the weld). I think the extra bracing would have helped.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by M3MATT

That brace is interesting to think of. I had cracking on the tail pipe exit (on the weld). I think the extra bracing would have helped.

yeah the end caps are paper thin... so if the area by the weld cracks, i would expect it to sheer some of the surrounding material.

although that looks to be fixable with a fabricator who isn't concerned about the carbon build up.

the crack location that I had, was 6inches longer than what is shown on yours

You probably don't have the exhaust anymore assuming you warrantied it with turner, but yeah... hopefully my examples will provide ideas for others.

[nevaland9]

Here are some pics of my repaired V1 Ti muffler. Mine split along the edge of the seam so i had him put a nice bead all the way around but i think i thicker bead inside the seam would be a more future proof solution. We also discovered that one of the pipes wasn't even welded all the way around.

I have not reinstalled the repaired muffler yet, the V2 Ti muffler on my car still hasn't cracked (that i can tell). I did notice that the walls are ballooning a bit. My assumption is that theres too much back pressure with the valves closed which causes the walls to blow out, especially during DCT blips. I started to notice a tinny popping noise when doing high rpm downshifts so ive been driving with the valves open most of the time which i think is the main reason it hasnt cracked yet.

The brace is a great idea, I was thinking about adding a X brace on the sides to help with the walls being ballooned. Im also thinking about either adding some packing inside the muffler or trying to figure out how to reduce the back pressure inside the muffler. Open to any ideas as i have zero exhaust engineering experience.

[nevaland9]

Originally Posted by M3MATT

That brace is interesting to think of. I had cracking on the tail pipe exit (on the weld). I think the extra bracing would have helped.

My SS muffler cracked in the same exact spot.
Its mind blowing to me that they refuse to acknowledge that theres a issue.

[nick3753]

Man, you shouldn’t have to work this hard to make a product work as intended . I hope all you guys with issues have posted reviews where purchased so that others don’t buy this junk.

[M3MATT]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

yeah the end caps are paper thin... so if the area by the weld cracks, i would expect it to sheer some of the surrounding material.

although that looks to be fixable with a fabricator who isn't concerned about the carbon build up.

the crack location that I had, was 6inches longer than what is shown on yours

You probably don't have the exhaust anymore assuming you warrantied it with turner, but yeah... hopefully my examples will provide ideas for others.

I actually just got it welded! I’m putting it on tomorrow to see. I’d rather just try to fix it than get a new unit that will have the same issue.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by M3MATT

I actually just got it welded! I’m putting it on tomorrow to see. I’d rather just try to fix it than get a new unit that will have the same issue.

nice~ i wont have my exhaust on till the weekend and ill put it thru some testing... ill even load a burble tune just to see how it reacts to the booming noise... and i get to be a degenerate for a bit.

Originally Posted by nevaland9

I did notice that the walls are ballooning a bit. My assumption is that theres too much back pressure with the valves closed which causes the walls to blow out, especially during DCT blips.

it has to do more with heat than anything else, i don't think turner accounted for the metal expansion that creates the ballooning / bottle cap effect. especially with the super thin gauge on the end caps... which is probably 26g soft sheet lol

but hopefully your repairs work out in the end!

a very fun and simple video showcasing such expansion.

[nevaland9]

Originally Posted by nick3753

Man, you shouldn’t have to work this hard to make a product work as intended . I hope all you guys with issues have posted reviews where purchased so that others don’t buy this junk.

I 1000000% agree, its far too much work to make a $2,200 product function as advertised but circumstances are different for everyone. Im lucky enough to have the time, knowledge and tools (+friends) to play around with this.

Im also just a little autistic and like to take things apart and try to put them back together (better?) sometimes. I welcome the challenge, for now. Ill probably get frustrated and buy a GTC before the end of the year.

The way i see it, theres not a lot of Titanium options available for the E9X M3, theres even fewer valved options and even less valved options that sound good both open and closed. While its not ideal to have to repair someone elses poorly designed/QC product, i look at is as the tax for being different. The E9X is 15 years old now, being different and original is difficult. #boymath

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

nice~ i wont have my exhaust on till the weekend and ill put it thru some testing... ill even load a burble tune just to see how it reacts to the booming noise... and i get to be a degenerate for a bit.

it has to do more with heat than anything else, i don't think turner accounted for the metal expansion that creates the ballooning / bottle cap effect. especially with the super thin gauge on the end caps... which is probably 26g soft sheet lol

but hopefully your repairs work out in the end!

Agreed, that too. I think a nice X in the end caps with a bead roller could have eliminated some of their problems.

Im going to put my repaired Ti muffler back on this weekend, im not fully confident that the repairs alone will be enough to prevent cracks from happening again but thats why im keeping my other Ti muffler for now.

Maybe ill cut open the Ti muffler, see if i can bead roll or weld some stiffness into the walls. I like most of the sounds that comes from this muffler but the tinny noise around 2-3k under load kinda makes me cringe and im pretty sure that comes from the thin end caps vibrating. Maybe ill try adding some wheel weights to them and see if they help cancel out some of the undesirable resonance.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by nevaland9

im not fully confident that the repairs alone will be enough to prevent cracks from happening again

This is my thought as well. I've already fabricated my own TI x-pipe, and now I need to make a TI rear section as well. So, this is a good base to start with since I don't have to build my own connecting pipes.

Welding your own connecting pipes in titanium will be 60% of the cost of the whole rear section since it has the most bends and weld points... I'm deciding whether I should design my own chambered mufflers or just pick one from TiCon if this fix doesn't do anything.

[nevaland9]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

This is my thought as well. I've already fabricated my own TI x-pipe, and now I need to make a TI rear section as well. So, this is a good base to start with since I don't have to build my own connecting pipes.

Welding your own connecting pipes in titanium will be 60% of the cost of the whole rear section since it has the most bends and weld points... I'm deciding whether I should design my own chambered mufflers or just pick one from TiCon if this fix doesn't do anything.

Yep, playing with Ti is not cheap. At the. very least, youve got some $2,200 connecting pipes.

Id be super interested in hearing/seeing what your setup sounds like. I have the Sub2Speedhouse resonated Ti Forward X-pipe from berns which also uses Ticon resonators. Its an absolutely phenomenal piece of craftsmanship (probably too nice for my car). The sound with the Ti Turner is absolutely epic and so unique. I often get asked if i have a S85 swap.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by nevaland9

Yep, playing with Ti is not cheap. At the. very least, youve got some $2,200 connecting pipes.

Id be super interested in hearing/seeing what your setup sounds like. I have the Sub2Speedhouse resonated Ti Forward X-pipe from berns which also uses Ticon resonators. Its an absolutely phenomenal piece of craftsmanship (probably too nice for my car). The sound with the Ti Turner is absolutely epic and so unique. I often get asked if i have a S85 swap.

Yeah, Alex has a great xpipe set up. top notch~

I'm excited to test it out when the time comes... this weekend.. might start wiring up the valves now rather than wait.