How badly does catless xpipe void the warranty?

[Pauldramos]

Originally Posted by crabman

Like I said, keep in mind no matter how mod friendly the dealership is there are many major repairs they cannot make without approval from a regional guy that comes in to have a look and they are not mod friendly, they don't sell cars, they absolutely will nix anything on the drivetrain if the car is tuned or has any part which might add power. The dealership can then choose to pay out of pocket or punt. At that point you better be ready to catch the warranty football because you will become your own warranty station.

The old saying back in vettes was do not mod unless you were prepared to be and financially capable of being your own warranty station. This is a truth that applies to any car. I have pursued a Moss-Mag to its conclusion and I can tell you what my attorney told me. If you do anything that adds power they can pretty much toss the drivetrain warranty at will. They are in no way responsible to warranty the car at any power level other than the one the car came with as delivered. A cat delete can/will add power and I can promise you that regional guy knows it and he will do his job which is specifically to look for exactly that.

Something to think about is that should you choose to fight a denial you are guilty until you prove otherwise. Possession is 9/10s of the law and the dealership is only the face you talk to on the organism that possesses your warranty repair. When you are denied you can either leave your car broke or fix it out of pocket. Even should you be completely right you will not see any remedy until you are on the other end of a process that will stretch out months or in my case more than a year. You will pay real money out of pocket for your legal fees which can be somewhat reduced if you are willing to donate your own time. But you will pay, either time or money. You may never recover your legal fees right or wrong and in my case I won out but I did not. You will never recover your time.

They cannot void your warranty in its entirety unless the car meets certain specific criteria and those likely will not apply to us with the mods we do. There is odo tampering, the vehicle has been declared a total loss by insurance, the vehicle has been altered so much as to change its intended use from that for which it was sold, a couple others that I don't remember as its been ten years or so since my lesson. What most of us will face is a loss of a set part of the new car warranty while it otherwise remains in affect. Usually it will be drivetrain that goes out the window.

I'm not trying to say don't do it, I have done it myself many times. And in several cases they were significant mods that most people wouldn't even have to ask about warranty on, they know its gone. I do think that a person should know what everything between the tips of the tailpipe and the radiator costs and be prepared to pay for it because it may be that one fine day they will.

Excellent post!

Btw look at Dinan products and the warranty they carry.

[Rekrul]

Originally Posted by ksflatlander

Wow. Completely missed the point.

THE POINT of the story is that anything you do that could be viewed to INCREASE POWER can be viewed to put additional strain on the rest of the power train that it was not originally engineered to handle. That's their blanket excuse and they can use it any time they want and the dealer has nothing to say about it.

A full aftermarket exhaust increases power. Not much, but it does. Fact. A valve melts, throw a rod, lose a main bearing, you name it... all they have to say is the car was operating at a power level above what they engineered. Sure, Moss/Magnuson says they have to prove it caused the failure. True. But that is AFTER they deny your warranty claim and AFTER you hire a lawyer or spend your time to try and sue them yourself and spend all the money doing so. Are you going to do that. Maybe. Probably not though. And your car isn't fixed unless you pay to fix it or go through the year or so it takes to try and make them. That's reality. And it's between you and BMWNA NOT your local dealer.

And, by the way, the Banks kit in my example put ZERO extra strain on the injection pump as PROVEN by Banks Engineering with full documentation from their R&D department showing all the voltage ranges possible from the control unit being within STOCK tolerances. This is why the service manager and the owner of the dealership fought so hard. The Banks kit had NOTHING to do with the failure. But as I said before - didn't matter. They had their "excuse" and they used it. It's a loosing battle.

I mean I see your points, they are valid. But I suppose logically, something that is going to directly increase boost, heat, and significantly up power is a much easier out than a full exhaust. Same deal with software, you are directly tampering with ignition/timing/vanos... much easier out for BMW

Do you think BMW would give a shit if a motor blew running a ESS kit? Even though they have tons of R&D and none of their cars have blown?


I agree with you that all mods are a risky endeavor. Of the two performance mods that I think would least likely cause you warranty issues one is an axle back and number two is a xpipe. I think pulleys/intakes/software are more dangerous than the aforementioned two mods and causality can be more easily attributed to these three than any variant of an exhaust.

[crabman]

Originally Posted by ksflatlander

Wow. Completely missed the point.

THE POINT of the story is that anything you do that could be viewed to INCREASE POWER can be viewed to put additional strain on the rest of the power train that it was not originally engineered to handle. That's their blanket excuse and they can use it any time they want and the dealer has nothing to say about it.

A full aftermarket exhaust increases power. Not much, but it does. Fact. A valve melts, throw a rod, lose a main bearing, you name it... all they have to say is the car was operating at a power level above what they engineered. Sure, Moss/Magnuson says they have to prove it caused the failure. True. But that is AFTER they deny your warranty claim and AFTER you hire a lawyer or spend your time to try and sue them yourself and spend all the money doing so. Are you going to do that. Maybe. Probably not though. And your car isn't fixed unless you pay to fix it or go through the year or so it takes to try and make them. That's reality. And it's between you and BMWNA NOT your local dealer.

And, by the way, the Banks kit in my example put ZERO extra strain on the injection pump as PROVEN by Banks Engineering with full documentation from their R&D department showing all the voltage ranges possible from the control unit being within STOCK tolerances. This is why the service manager and the owner of the dealership fought so hard. The Banks kit had NOTHING to do with the failure. But as I said before - didn't matter. They had their "excuse" and they used it. It's a loosing battle.

Yeah, see you ran into that regional guy (as you know) and he has no mercy. I had an 03 running at over 600 hp (twin turbo) so I actually met that guy with Chrysler or I suppose one of those guys as he told me his region covered 8 states in the western US if I recall correctly. There are many parts for those trucks the dealer cannot order on their own hook for a warranty repair until he approves it. The CP3, lift pump, turbo, trans, diff, injectors, etc. The order process for parts does not even start until his inspection is complete.

As to the dealership having to prove that a part caused or contributed to a break down due to provisions of the MM act that is both true and false. The MM act is a huge chunk of language covering all manner of warranty stuff. At any rate while that may apply to a specific part power adders hit upon another aspect of warranty and that is that you changed the product from its designed hp to a higher level that it was not sold at, intended, or designed for. The OEM is not responsible for warranty coverage on this new configuration, it is only responsible for the one it sold. I am not an attorney and I'm going on memory from a fair while back now but maybe a lawyer type will come along and he or she can give a better (and I'm sure more accurate) explanation.

[ksflatlander]

I posted merely to give folks the take-away that if they choose to mod, they open themselves up to a fight they probably can't win if challenged. A friendly dealership can insulate you somewhat, but if you get a major failure (which CAN happen even if you leave it stock), then you may very well be on your own to fix it.

Just want people who are contemplating going into the modding thing with their EYES WIDE OPEN. That's all. It IS a risk. Sometimes one worth taking, but that is always subjective and according to each persons risk tolerance.

[Raptor251]

Originally Posted by ksflatlander

I posted merely to give folks the take-away that if they choose to mod, they open themselves up to a fight they probably can't win if challenged. A friendly dealership can insulate you somewhat, but if you get a major failure (which CAN happen even if you leave it stock), then you may very well be on your own to fix it.

Just want people who are contemplating going into the modding thing with their EYES WIDE OPEN. That's all. It IS a risk. Sometimes one worth taking, but that is always subjective and according to each persons risk tolerance.

Or if you get a major failure you can bolt the stock exhaust back on the car and remove the Akra Delete R before anyone looks at it?!?! Pain in the ass? Yes Worth having a catless s65? Hell yes