Gintani SC kit = Game Over

[bigpuna]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

The ESS kit made 602whp on 93 octane at 8-9psi, DIN CF, but in your opinion does this go against science as well?

30-40 more WHP with similar boost levels and worse fuel ?? I would find it very hard to believe mostly because of the poor california 91 octane. If the dyno was done with 93+ octane and 10 psi I could believe that But if Gintani wants to claim it is correct then I will buy it until proven wrong. I have no problem with the 535 whp dyno I just have a problem with the inflated estimated corrected numbers with the testing conditions given. Waiting for Raz to confirm his kits advertised rated power on 91 octane.

[Sales@Evolve]

Going through in detail PG's database and other dyno graphs shown on this forum I am not comfortable that any of the results can be compared to each other.

The consistency just isn't there.

This is not a critism of dyno operators but everyone has their own style and method of measuring a cars performance.

People are using different gears and the correction factors are not being used correctly.

On a dyno dynamics machine it's pretty simple - leave the correction factors alone, let the software do it's calculation, everyone use the same gear, place the intake probe in the same place on the same cars and the results will be consistent no matter what the conditions (assuming adequate cooling is in place).
The only other area which changes the ouput and graph shape is how hard the car is strapped down.
Since this is the only area which makes the difference we experimented with different strapping. This is where it really goes pear shaped for most.
The only way to get true consistency is to allow the the wheel to lose contact with the rear roller and the wheel to remain in the same position through the whole dyno run.
Leave the wheel on the rear roller and you run into problems with consistency because even the smallest amount of difference in strap tension will make a difference.

We dyno loads of E92 M3 all year round. No matter what the conditions are we get the same results. We have dynoed the same cars in 0 degrees C and + 30 degrees C. Same result, same graph.

The dyno dynamics machines all come with external weather stations. Stick to what ever they read and the consistency is phenominal. Set every dyno run to 1000mB baro prsssure all year round and you might aswell through the dyno away because you'll never get consistency.

As long as lots of attention to detail is exercised then there are no issues.

The gear used is also of great relevance. Dyno an M3 in 3rd (which is the correct gear) and then do it in 4th and you'll see a massive difference in power recorded. So how do we now company A is not using gear 4 and another is using gear 3? The results are not comparible.

The correction factors on a Dyno Dynamics always print out IF everything is done in shoot out mode.

Dyno Dynamics tried very hard to standardise things but if people don't follow the intructions then you cannot compare.

E92 M3's will make 340RWHP on a Dyno Dynamics all day long.

If dyno operators don't want to be doubted then show your correction factors PER RUN.

I have asked many companies to show their gear used (easily shown by having a graph with road speed on x-axis) and correction factors when giving big claims from mods that just don't work......... I get nothing.

As far as comparing results from different dyno's goes...... now that's a total waste of time because if you can't compare the results from the same manufacturer...... I don't need to say anymore!

Staying on track - the origional dyno graph shown from this Supercharger kit looks impressive and hats off to you guys for developing it.
The 'GAIN' is very good. The GAIN is all that matters here. Then show the correction factors per run and the road speed. No one will ever doubt your graphs. Your reputation will be concreted.

As for the issues at low rpm's, my first guess would be that they don't actually exist in real life. I believe that is due to the car moving or kangarooing on the dyno.

Gintani's latest version of the DD has next to nothing as far as graph smoothing goes. Every detail is recorded.

[Nawaaz]

^ You're a smart man Salman!

[mig28]

Originally Posted by niterider

Please remember this is on a DynoDynamics, which is a very low reading dyno. I will Dyno on a dyno jet and dyno pack so u guys can get a better idea.

+1
dyno dynamics is the closest result that you can get beside the mustang dyno.



there is big differences between the dyno dynamics dyno compare to dynojets.

[niterider]

Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve

Going through in detail PG's database and other dyno graphs shown on this forum I am not comfortable that any of the results can be compared to each other.

The consistency just isn't there.

This is not a critism of dyno operators but everyone has their own style and method of measuring a cars performance.

People are using different gears and the correction factors are not being used correctly.

On a dyno dynamics machine it's pretty simple - leave the correction factors alone, let the software do it's calculation, everyone use the same gear, place the intake probe in the same place on the same cars and the results will be consistent no matter what the conditions (assuming adequate cooling is in place).
The only other area which changes the ouput and graph shape is how hard the car is strapped down.
Since this is the only area which makes the difference we experimented with different strapping. This is where it really goes pear shaped for most.
The only way to get true consistency is to allow the the wheel to lose contact with the rear roller and the wheel to remain in the same position through the whole dyno run.
Leave the wheel on the rear roller and you run into problems with consistency because even the smallest amount of difference in strap tension will make a difference.

We dyno loads of E92 M3 all year round. No matter what the conditions are we get the same results. We have dynoed the same cars in 0 degrees C and + 30 degrees C. Same result, same graph.

The dyno dynamics machines all come with external weather stations. Stick to what ever they read and the consistency is phenominal. Set every dyno run to 1000mB baro prsssure all year round and you might aswell through the dyno away because you'll never get consistency.

As long as lots of attention to detail is exercised then there are no issues.

The gear used is also of great relevance. Dyno an M3 in 3rd (which is the correct gear) and then do it in 4th and you'll see a massive difference in power recorded. So how do we now company A is not using gear 4 and another is using gear 3? The results are not comparible.

The correction factors on a Dyno Dynamics always print out IF everything is done in shoot out mode.

Dyno Dynamics tried very hard to standardise things but if people don't follow the intructions then you cannot compare.

E92 M3's will make 340RWHP on a Dyno Dynamics all day long.

If dyno operators don't want to be doubted then show your correction factors PER RUN.

I have asked many companies to show their gear used (easily shown by having a graph with road speed on x-axis) and correction factors when giving big claims from mods that just don't work......... I get nothing.

As far as comparing results from different dyno's goes...... now that's a total waste of time because if you can't compare the results from the same manufacturer...... I don't need to say anymore!

Staying on track - the origional dyno graph shown from this Supercharger kit looks impressive and hats off to you guys for developing it.
The 'GAIN' is very good. The GAIN is all that matters here. Then show the correction factors per run and the road speed. No one will ever doubt your graphs. Your reputation will be concreted.

As for the issues at low rpm's, my first guess would be that they don't actually exist in real life. I believe that is due to the car moving or kangarooing on the dyno.

Gintani's latest version of the DD has next to nothing as far as graph smoothing goes. Every detail is recorded.

+1 Best said! and yes they dyno on 3rd gear. Their numbers from M3 to M3 are very consistant.

[niterider]

Originally Posted by bigpuna

My comparisons of dynos were based around trying to correct your math. From my expierence with FI is not possible to produce 630 whp on 91 octane at 9.5 psi of boost on a 12.5:1 CR motor. I was simply trying to explain that the the corrections you were using based on what you were told or read were off. If the Dyno Dynamics Gintani uses is really around 15% lower then a dynojet and it is making 535 whp then you would be looking at a dynojet number on your kit of 630 whp on 91 octane at 9.5 psi. Add in the 15% loss that this car has on a dynojet and you are saying that your car is making close to 740 crank HP. I hope you understand where I was going with this.

If you are saying that the Gintani kit is making 740 HP on 91 octane and 9.5 psi then everything you have said makes total sense but it goes against science To make this math work you would need to do one of three things. 1. Raise your octane rating 2. Raise your boost 3. Lower your % difference between what Gintani made on the dyno VS what the car would make on a dynojet.

So the question for you is is this a kit that customers can buy and it will make 740 HP on 91 octane ?? If so then you have one hell of a kit on your hands

Oh so u build engines now hu? It goes against science? LMFAO. Here we go again another guy whos gonna tell me something isnt possible because HIS theory doesnt add up. Yes someone can make more power then the ESS kit ur looking into buying (please this is nothing against ESS). Ur obviously just here to hate on the Gintani kit.

I posted this for one reason, to show people that Gintani is playing hard ball and can make just as good if not better products then the competition.

Gintani has never said this was the kit they will sell, neither did I. I just had the car dynoed with the new intake and saw great results. So I decided to post them so people can see how much power this kit can do.

This being said I retract my opinion of what the numbers might b on a DynoJet. Like Sal said, its pretty much a waist of time. Ill just Dyno on a DynoJet some other time and show the actual DynoJet results.

[niterider]

Originally Posted by yowhuddupb

damn! congrats Brian! i remember when you first bought it too! it has definitely came a long way brotha! trying to get rid of my 335 for a M now!

Thanks brotha!

[powertrip]

You shouldn't have any problems, especially if you run meth. I know your tuner and he knows his stuff...PERIOD.

Originally Posted by niterider

Gintani has never said this was the kit they will sell, neither did I. I just had the car dynoed with the new intake and saw great results. So I decided to post them so people can see how much power this kit can do.

Now if I do meth inj. Im sure I can run this boost all day, no prob. But this is just me, not everyone will want to run this amount of boost, however I think its very safe because Gintani has pulled a lot of timing off this SC kit.

[Sales@Evolve]

Just to show a Dyno Dynamics is not a low reading dyno (if it is then god knows what this kit is actually making!). The exact same car made 344RWHP when totally stock.

Notice the little box on the right hand side showing the correction factors of that exact run. These are the actual atmospheric conditions right now here in the dyno cell.

Dyno session done in shootout mode so we cannot alter the correction factors from what the weather station reads.



Also, note that the flywheel calculation is about 16% which I think is very realistic.

Same car with no mods - making a realistic amount of power - almost exactly what BMW say it should make.



Looking at the power gains, it looks like the Gintani kit and G power we have here gain approximately the same power.
That means the Gintani kit is basically an animal.......nothing short of a supercar slayer.......because that's what this G-Power one is!

[TheKosherStogie]

I Dyno'd My Car On A Dynamics At Autowave And It Read 366hp...then Ran It A Rpi And It Read 336...and I Hear That Gintani Dynamics Runs Same As The Rpi...just To Note

[Sales@Evolve]

Hi Sammy,

was that with or without your modifications?

[MrHarris]

What temperature was it when you ran the dyno at RPi?

[niterider]

Originally Posted by sammyrusso

I Dyno'd My Car On A Dynamics At Autowave And It Read 366hp...then Ran It A Rpi And It Read 336...and I Hear That Gintani Dynamics Runs Same As The Rpi...just To Note

I think this has to do with the way the straped the car, their apparently is different ways cars can get strapped down and dynoed. However I dont think their is a wrong or right as long as the shop stays consistant with the way they strap the car down. I had a converssation with Sal abou this and I learned a lot

[TheKosherStogie]

it was only a few days apart...weather was the same...and at both it was run with an eisenmann race installed....

my only point is obviously it can vary...and at autowave they dont show their correction factor on the chart...cause i hear they run one...

[niterider]

Originally Posted by sammyrusso

it was only a few days apart...weather was the same...and at both it was run with an eisenmann race installed....

my only point is obviously it can vary...and at autowave they dont show their correction factor on the chart...cause i hear they run one...

This makes sense then.

[niterider]

Just hit 12,000 miles on my SC kit, still running strong. I dont think any other company has a customer with this many miles on thier SC kit .

These miles consist of daily driving in LA traffic, 4 track events, 3 auto x events, 4 drag events, several comparo runs, several dynos and a lot of canyon runs. I must say I am very impressed with Gintanis SC kit, I drive my car very hard and its been problem free.

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by niterider

Just hit 12,000 miles on my SC kit, still running strong. I dont think any other company has a customer with this many miles on thier SC kit .

These miles consist of daily driving in LA traffic, 4 track events, 3 auto x events, 4 drag events, several comparo runs, several dynos and a lot of canyon runs. I must say I am very impressed with Gintanis SC kit, I drive my car very hard and its been problem free.

You're making more power now then the original dyno in the 1st post right?

[MrHarris]

I love how when you slap an SC on this car the torque curve goes from flat to rising. Good to hear there's an SC kit out that's durable. I guess Gintani knows a thing or two about tuning

[mikewads]

Originally Posted by niterider

These miles consist of 4 drag events

What was some of your times at these 4 drag events?

[tightie]

Originally Posted by niterider

Just hit 12,000 miles on my SC kit, still running strong. I dont think any other company has a customer with this many miles on thier SC kit .

These miles consist of daily driving in LA traffic, 4 track events, 3 auto x events, 4 drag events, several comparo runs, several dynos and a lot of canyon runs. I must say I am very impressed with Gintanis SC kit, I drive my car very hard and its been problem free.

Sickest 4 door M3 I've ever seen... This beast can MOVE.

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve

Just to show a Dyno Dynamics is not a low reading dyno (if it is then god knows what this kit is actually making!). The exact same car made 344RWHP when totally stock.

Notice the little box on the right hand side showing the correction factors of that exact run. These are the actual atmospheric conditions right now here in the dyno cell.

Dyno session done in shootout mode so we cannot alter the correction factors from what the weather station reads.



Also, note that the flywheel calculation is about 16% which I think is very realistic.

Same car with no mods - making a realistic amount of power - almost exactly what BMW say it should make.



Looking at the power gains, it looks like the Gintani kit and G power we have here gain approximately the same power.
That means the Gintani kit is basically an animal.......nothing short of a supercar slayer.......because that's what this G-Power one is!

what kind of GAS is on pump in the UK?

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

Originally Posted by tightie

Sickest 4 door M3 I've ever seen... This beast can MOVE.

I hope my car is the sickest 2 door M3 in the EAST. from the land where all knock off car parts are made