18 track wheel Options

[03SG///M3]

Anyone have some good places that sell some quality 18 track wheels? I had OZ Ultraleggara's for track use on my E46 M3 and they were great - inexpensive, strong, and light. Unfortunately, i don't see them available for the E90 M3 on tirerack. I want to get four 18/9.5 or 18/10 (with the right offsets to avoid any rubbing). The Tire Rack only has the BBS CH's in staggered setup and the TR motorsport which i don't want. I am considering the Forgeline Turner setup but they are really expensive.

[enricob]

Originally Posted by 03SG///M3

Anyone have some good places that sell some quality 18 track wheels? I had OZ Ultraleggara's for track use on my E46 M3 and they were great - inexpensive, strong, and light. Unfortunately, i don't see them available for the E90 M3 on tirerack. I want to get four 18/9.5 or 18/10 (with the right offsets to avoid any rubbing). The Tire Rack only has the BBS CH's in staggered setup and the TR motorsport which i don't want. I am considering the Forgeline Turner setup but they are really expensive.

OZ's ET is not avaible for M3 e90

[von_zoom]

What ever you discover, please post.
Thanks
vz

[M3V8Driver]

You could check out the Forgestars. If you order a set today, you might have them next spring (I'm still waiting for a set F14s that I ordered back in early August). They have a nice build/quality description... yet to find out if they can live up to the hype. They also have a nice price. But the best part is... you spec the offsets and finish at no extra charge. Basically, a custom set of wheels for under $1500 shipped!

[jajr1098s]

Check out CCW. They made me custom made 18"s to fit around my 6 pod front and 4 pod rear StopTech BBK.

[Dartanium]

Originally Posted by jajr1098s

Check out CCW. They made me custom made 18"s to fit around my 6 pod front and 4 pod rear StopTech BBK.

which wheel did you get? The classics or their one-piece wheels? Please post some pictures if possible, thanks.

[aus]

Originally Posted by M3V8Driver

You could check out the Forgestars. If you order a set today, you might have them next spring (I'm still waiting for a set F14s that I ordered back in early August). They have a nice build/quality description... yet to find out if they can live up to the hype. They also have a nice price. But the best part is... you spec the offsets and finish at no extra charge. Basically, a custom set of wheels for under $1500 shipped!

There's hope for you... http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316081

Here's another option: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314758
I like how these are JWL certified.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by M3V8Driver

You could check out the Forgestars. If you order a set today, you might have them next spring (I'm still waiting for a set F14s that I ordered back in early August). They have a nice build/quality description... yet to find out if they can live up to the hype. They also have a nice price. But the best part is... you spec the offsets and finish at no extra charge. Basically, a custom set of wheels for under $1500 shipped!

I'd advise you to cancel that order.

Their marketing is more 'hype' than substance...

I know for a fact that these Forgestar wheels were never designed for the weight of mid-sized car (E9x m3), with a curb weight of 3600 lbs.

These wheels were designed for a 1-series car, and it's doubtful whether they would last for very long with such a low load rating. (544Kg)

The load rating of their wheels is over 25% less than would it should be (690kg), and the durability issues with these wheels is already coming to the surface. That's why you order has been delayed for so long...

Save yourself the aggravation, and buy something that you know will last. (and has a proven track record).

I would suggest the ADVAN wheel offerings (690kg load rating), or the new APEX wheels (703 kg load rating) that Paintpro is selling.

Both the ADVAN and APEX cast wheels are fully JWL & VIA certified as well. The Forgestars are not...

[M3V8Driver]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

I'd advise you to cancel that order.

Thanks, but I don't take advice from somebody I don't know and who can't reveal his name.

Their marketing is more 'hype' than substance.

Who's? Forgestar's or **********'s?

I know for a fact that these Forgestar wheels were never designed for the weight of mid-sized car (E9x m3), with a curb weight of 3600 lbs.

You say "fact", but how do you know? How about backing this statement up with proof?

These wheels were designed for a 1-series car, and it's doubtful whether they would last for very long with such a low load rating. (544Kg)

The 19"s are rated for 1500. Not sure about the 18".

The load rating of their wheels is over 25% less than would it should be (690kg), and the durability issues with these wheels is already coming to the surface. That's why you order has been delayed for so long.

Sounds more like speculation than fact. I am interested in hearing people's experience with the durability of these wheels since I am expecting a set any day now.

Save yourself the aggravation, and buy something that you know will last. (and has a proven track record).

I would, but I can't afford any of the ones I like. These wheels are supposed to be about value, that is, good wheels at a good price, with the benefit of spec'ing out offset.

I would suggest the ADVAN wheel offerings (690kg load rating), or the new APEX wheels (703 kg load rating) that Paintpro is selling.

Both the ADVAN and APEX cast wheels are fully JWL & VIA certified as well. The Forgestars are not...

... and the new Apex wheel is proven? Please explain what JWL and VIA is and why they're so great. I wonder if Forgestar has plans to get those certs.

Somewhere, I saw the SAE test results for the 18" Forgestar F14 wheels, either on this forum or Ron sent them to me via email. I'll have to search for those and repost here.

Thanks. Not trying to start a flame war, but I want to avoid a case of somebody just bashing another product or vendor for his own reasons. I'm more into fact, not fiction.

[jajr1098s]

Originally Posted by Dartanium

which wheel did you get? The classics or their one-piece wheels? Please post some pictures if possible, thanks.

It's the C-10. We've used the C-10's on a Porsche GT-3 and the classics on a Corvette and they have always been solid. Now we had the owner John (from CCW) make me a set for my E92 back in May and my brother has a set on a GTR. They have been good so far. Probably used them about 8-9 HPDE's this year.

Never posted a pic before, so I hope this works.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Dale,

There is definitely an advantage to have your wheels built using flow-form casting...if they're properly engineered.

The use of flow form casting does not guarantee you anything. It's not a stone-cold-lock that your wheel will have superior build construction attributes to even a basic gravity cast wheel.

This marketing BS is overhypeing flow form casting as something equal to a forged wheel. It's not.

It CAN result in material properties that are similar, but this depends on a number of mitigating factors including the aluminum alloy used, the heat treatment process, and the engineering behind the basic design.

ALL those things make a difference and if you screw any one of those things up...your supposed build construction advantage goes bye-bye.

BTW, these Forgestar wheels are (and always will be) CAST. The description of these wheels is vastly overstated, and they seem to be trying to imply they aren't actually cast wheels at all. That's a load of crap. These may be flow formed wheel but they are also CAST in case anyone was confused about that little detail. Don't let the name fool you, Forgestar doesn't build any forged wheels at all. (only flow formed cast)

Their name is derived form their sister company...iForged. (same ownership group)



Also...

You don't have to 'wonder' why the 18" Forgester cast wheels have such a low load rating either...

I'll explain it to you in detail, so you can understand why I responded to this thread in the first place.

The load rating for this wheel is laughable for use on a E9x M3.

But there is good reason for it...

In order to achieve the low wheel weight they wanted for the 18" size, they simply milled away enough material to meet that goal. That's it. Just fire up the CNC machine and start cutting.

Unfortunately, if you choose to do that...the load rating will suffer, and I'll explain why.

If you are going to manufacture a CAST wheel product, you must decide on which manufacturing method you are going to choose. (gravity casting, low pressure casting, or flow forming)

I posted a long and very detailed write up about the three cast wheel manufacturing methods used today, so take a look at it if you care to learn more about how these wheel products are actually made...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=43

My post here was to demonstrate how inept the engineering is for this particular brand.

You cannot randomly mill away aluminum material from a cast wheel design (flow forming included), to achieve a target weight goal.

It doesn't work that way, and if you insist on going this route, there may be disastrous consequences as a result.

That's very dangerous, and also very irresponsible. You are exposing your clients (the consumer) to greater risks than they should otherwise expect.

You have some latitude to reduce the weight of a cast flow formed wheel, but a 17.6 lb. 18x8.5 wheel is pushing the technology too far IMO.

The only way Forgestar can pull that off, is to remove more MASS.

MASS is directly tied to the LOAD RATING of the wheel.

These two details go hand-and-hand, with the construction of any alloy wheel product on the market.

As you remove MASS, your LOAD RATING for the wheel decreases.

This a fact...not my opinion.

This is true of all CAST aluminum alloy wheels, regardless of the casting method used. (and forged wheels to lesser degree)

LOAD RATINGS are important, as they are a good indicator of whether or not the wheel will sustain the day-to-day punishment of pot holes, bumps, dips, cracks, speed bumps, and other road imperfections.

A wheel with a load rating that is too low, will have a negative effect on it's long term durability. (after being installed on the car a few months to a year)

Think of it as the 'endurance' factor.

Getting punched in the face one time may not inflict too much damage, but the cumulative effect of multiple blows over time certainly WILL. That's why it's so important to find a wheel product that meets this very basic wheel construction threshold.

It's in your best interest to buy products that meet this requirement, if you want the best chance of having a drama free buying experience.

There are no guarantees of course, but your odds certainly get longer if you ignore this basic truth. (buying a product that does not meet minimum wheel construction standards)

Here are few mainstream aftermarket cast wheels that DO meet the minimum LOAD RATING threshold for the E9x M3:

TR Motorsports 18" (gravity cast) = 690kg
BBS CH-R 19" & 20" (flow form cast) = 720kg
OZ ULTRALEGGRA (low pressure cast) = 715kg
Enkei RPF1 (low pressure cast) = 690kg
ADVAN RS (low pressure cast) = 690kg


Also,

To artificially change the offset values (in order to create their custom offset option), Forgestar is milling away material from the back of the centerpad area.

This is a VERY BAD IDEA.

To say that decision was 'ignorant', would be an understatement. No established wheel manufacturer on the planet would ever attempt something so blatantly irresponsible.

You can not manipulate the offset a CAST wheel in that manner, without weakening the wheel's structural integrity. It's a safety issue...

Flow form casting is good, but it's not THAT good. The safety margins for flow formed cast aluminum alloy wheels, simply don't support the use of such technology.

BBS can't even pull that one off, and they invented the technology 20 years ago. (and have been perfecting it ever since)

This technology is restricted to high tonnage FORGED wheels for good reason. (forged wheels are much stronger and more durable) The margins you have with forged wheels, will allow you to use this option. And even then, you can't go overboard, or the wheel has the potential to fail under heavy cornering loads.

This is why you don't see ANYONE else offering 'custom offset' cast aluminum wheels...

They are all fixed offset.

Forgestar's foolish approach, is the result of incompetence and arrogance in it's purest form. Instead of employing sound manufacturing principles, (like building a wheel with the proper load rating for this car), hiring an actual wheel design engineer (with the basic knowledge of wheel construction standards), Forgestar decided to make these things up as they went along. That is not the best approach to building a high quality wheel product.

No established brand, would ever build or market such a wheel product to the general public in it's current form.

Forgestar would have ended up with a much better wheel, if they had simply followed the rules already laid out for them by other brands in the marketplace. But unfortunately, they decided it would be more exciting to throw caution to the wind...and 'wing it' I suppose.

Whatever their reasoning was, it still doesn't change the fact that this wheel is a engineering disaster. The durability of the Forgestar wheels that ARE sold will prove this out in the near future.

But hey, I'm just a guy on the internet right? What the hell do I know about wheels anyway...

[anthony @ eas]

The ADVAN RS wheels are a great option as they are strong and very light weight.



Here is an e92 M3 with 19"s mounted:

[attila]

I am just about to get a new set of 18" wheels for track use. But I am still hesitating between the Advan RS (i thought it was flow formed not low pressure cast)
or the Volk TE37 (forged but more expensive, offset is not as good as with the Advan)
So what you guys think? Which one would you choose?

[anthony @ eas]

From my understanding of the 2009 Yokohama Wheels Catalog, ADVAN wheels are cast and then the inner rims are flow formed.

[tszene]

Just to add to this heated discussion.
I bought the turner setup forgeline wheels at the beginning of this season as a dedicated set of track wheels.

I participated in 18 track days this year, and i still love them just as much if not more when i put them on.

If turner decided to go with this set for racing, i guess it should be fine for us trackday fanatics.


Also noteworthy that my time at the glen with stock 19'' wheels and stock tires went from 2:23 to 2:13 with the forgeline wheels and a set of hoosier r6's.


I think that's pretty good.

tamas

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by attila

I am just about to get a new set of 18" wheels for track use. But I am still hesitating between the Advan RS (i thought it was flow formed not low pressure cast)
or the Volk TE37 (forged but more expensive, offset is not as good as with the Advan)
So what you guys think? Which one would you choose?

If those are your two choices...

Go with the Advan RS wheels.

Less expensive, JWL approved, very strong and durable, and they look great.

Can't beat that combination.

BTW: Just double checked the detailed specifications, and YES they are flow-formed.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by tszene

Just to add to this heated discussion.
I bought the turner setup forgeline wheels at the beginning of this season as a dedicated set of track wheels.

I participated in 18 track days this year, and i still love them just as much if not more when i put them on.

If turner decided to go with this set for racing, i guess it should be fine for us trackday fanatics.


Also noteworthy that my time at the glen with stock 19'' wheels and stock tires went from 2:23 to 2:13 with the forgeline wheels and a set of hoosier r6's.


I think that's pretty good.

tamas

Not surprised to hear this at all.

Forgeline builds top notch wheel products, and that has been the case for years now.

Too bad the core BMW audience hasn't caught on, to just how good their products really are...

[attila]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

If those are your two choices...

Go with the Advan RS wheels.

Less expensive, JWL approved, very strong and durable, and they look great.

Can't beat that combination.

BTW: Just double checked the detailed specifications, and YES they are flow-formed.

Thanks, I think you are right, I will go with the Advan RS!
By the way do you know any better option?? I am really interested in your opinion!

[von_zoom]

Attila - I have not decided yet, and it will be after the 1st of the year before I buy anything. As of now, I am leaning toward the Volk TE37 if I can find them in the correct size, and a close second is from Turner - Forge Line.
vz

[03SG///M3]

I think from what's available, i will be going with the Turner setup.

[attila]

My problem with the Turner / forgeline setup is that I want to use a staggered setup. On MAM my main issue is oversteering on exits. I would like to get back on the throttle as soon as possible. With tail braking I can address understeer upon entry and telling the truth, it was never that much of an issue. So I think staggered setup, even if it is somewhat more expensive to run, is the better option.
Plus, the weight saving with the forgeline setup is not that high! Turner claim 24lbs compared to OEM, but most of that comes from the tires I think.

The best option based upon weight only is the Advan RS 18x9.5 and 18x10 with 265/35 R1 front and 285/30 R1 rear. The advans' offset is great, no need for spacer.
The Volk TE37 needs spacer (debatable) at least on the rear (offset 30) But the Volk rear is 18x10.5 which is better for the 285/30 R1.
Including spacers the Volk setup is about $800-900 more than the Advan RS, it is stronger though.

[attila]

By the way the BFG-R1's are running: 265/35 for $236, 285/30 for $250 at onlinetires.com.