Consolidating the autos

[Erhan]

I'm thinking of getting rid off M3 and get a Cayman or 911. Performance is not everything, but feel is (for me). M3 is just too powerful as a daily driver. I can't go WOT at all on the street, and I can't redline. So I'm wasting the S65.. And even I can't WOT or redline, I still get 15mpg... Then I take it to track, it is so soft it just is not satisfying. It is fast as hell (especially with DCT), but not engaging.

[Erhan]

OP: Keep your cars. I think you have best of both worlds.

[mkiv808]

Interesting, I did a cost analysis over the next 2 years.

This is assuming that an M3 I buy now used for $45,000 with be worth about $30,000 in 2 years and an additional 30,000 miles.

It's assuming I make little to no profit selling the 325i.

Also assuming that the Cayman S won't depreciate much more. I should be able to get $35,000 now, and I'm making the assumption it will be worth about $27,000 in 2 years and an additional 15,000 miles.

Even selling the 325i in a year and buying an A3 TDI (which I've been considering), I still come out ahead of the M3 scenario.

This takes into account insurance, payments, gas and approx. car value after 2 years.

Between sales tax, interest and depreciation, I'm actually in the best boat right now. Didn't expect that.

[persian54]

Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40

Even "performance" wise it is not much better. I think it is just seat of the pants feel that might make it seem worlds better than an M3. See below:

Nurburgring times:

E90/E92 M3 - 8:05
Cayman S - 8:04 (by Walter Röhrl)
Cayman S - 8:16 (Sport Auto)
335i E92 Coupe - 8:26 (included by me just for OP's edification).


Sorry, but rattles are still abound in some 2011s as far as I've seen on here. My interior rattles a bit, but not overbearingly so.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=512372

Sorry Ring times don't mean anything for me as you can give me the fastest, best handling, most balanced car in the world and give a pro driver a Civic Si and I know for a fact I can't even get close to his/her time

Just saying :P

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by mkiv808

I've had plenty of seat time in 911's, both modded and stock - on the track, and on the street... and they still don't compare to the feel and handling of the CS.

Indeed.
The CS is definitely a better driver than the M3, meaning it has the perfect seat/steering wheel/pedal/shifter relationship, along with the perfect clutch and gear engagement (although shifter feels a bit rubbery, since it's cable-operated). I'm partial to V8s, but the 987.1 F6 sound is just a notch below, and still thrilling (found the 987.2 engine sound 'castrated'). But everything else is better on the M3 IMO. Please give us your opinion when you finally drive one.

Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40

Also, i don't know who Walter Rohrl is, but I bet he could beat that 8:05 time in an M3 DCT...

If somebody can beat a DCT in a manual, it's Walter Rohrl man . Watch this:

Originally Posted by erhanh

Performance is not everything, but feel is (for me).

You can say that again . But if that's the case, don't even bother driving the 911 . The Cayman S is just incredible. But it's significantly smaller, and more spartan than the M3. If you want the best driving experience, the CS is the best money can buy. I even like the CS better than the F430 (both manuals), mostly due to the clumsy shifter on the latter. Performancewise it's no contest, obviously, but I prefer 'feel' than all-out performance (don't use the F430 nearly close to its limits anyway), and the CS has plenty. Unfortunately, it looks like crap from the back, but much better than the Boxster. Take care.

[mkiv808]

Awesome vid, thanks for posting.

[clar]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Please dont listen to a word this guy says. Nothing special...you have a lot to learn. The cayman S may not have the engine the M3 has, but its far better in every other way. We all appreciate the feel of the m3, well the cayman has it in spades over any bmw or M car.
Having owned a cayman S and Z4m coupe, the m3s handling was a huge let down from the cayman s, and even the z4m in some ways. it took a bit of getting used to. It will NEVER handle, feel, or be as precise as the cayman S is no matter what.



I think if you go into it realizing you are downgrading the handling of the cayman S significantly compared to the cayman, but picking up the practicality and usefulness in only one car you will be fine.
Nothing BMW makes is going to give you the handling the CS does or be nearly as good a driver's car...in fact nothing short of a 911/GT3 or Ferrari Scud will, so no matter what, its going to be a downgrade.

Seeing as youre in CT...give me a shout.

Just about anything Porsche makes is heavenly to you. I bet u think the exhaust from P cars smell better too...U must be one sad person to be driving an M3 now with all that obsession.

[TX]

Originally Posted by mkiv808

Don't need rear seats, but could be handy for going places with friends. No kids and that won't change anytime soon. Could use a trunk and more storage space, being a homeowner means lots of Ikea and Lowes runs. Also handy to hang a trunk strap bike rack out for mountain biking days. Kinda tough on a Carrera, and I think I would want a 997CS4 or CS2, which could get pricey. I've definitely considered it though. Although I think - ironically - the Cayman has more cargo space.

How different is the M3 from the 335i? I know it's more powerful, but curious how handling and steering feel differ? I have plenty of seat time in a friend's 335i and that definitely wouldn't satisfy the gap left by losing the Cayman.

If I lived in a warmer climate, I would consider just having the Cayman. Somehow, I can't bring myself to drive it in winter. I think I could stomach driving an E92 M3 on winter tires though...

Listen, I'll put this as nicely as I can. The 335 and the m3 are not even in the same league. Every single part on the m3, down to the stitching on the steering wheel, is better on the m3 than the 335. You could almost buy two 335s for an m3 and that should tell you the gap between the two cars. power, ride, steering feedback, suspension, options, on and on. Just look under each of the two cars and take a look around the engine bay. You'll easily see the difference.

[jms_w]

Originally Posted by mkiv808

...Could use a trunk and more storage space, being a homeowner means lots of Ikea and Lowes runs. Also handy to hang a trunk strap bike rack out for mountain biking days...

If I lived in a warmer climate, I would consider just having the Cayman. Somehow, I can't bring myself to drive it in winter...

Audi S4 Avant? Cargo space to haul home improvement stuff. Check. Mount a bike rack on roof. Check (I think). Winter drivability. Check. Not as fast though so that's the only negative.

[mkoesel]

Dare I mention a TT RS? I wouldn't necessarily buy one myself, but it does have a handy hatchback, it can carry four in a pinch, and is AWD.

[mkiv808]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Dare I mention a TT RS? I wouldn't necessarily buy one myself, but it does have a handy hatchback, it can carry four in a pinch, and is AWD.

No manual, no care.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by mkiv808

No manual, no care.

Um, it *only* comes with a manual in the US. You are in the US, right?

[valeram]

I came from Boxster 987S to E92 335i to E92 M3. They are all good cars in their own rights. Practicality, a 2 seater will be on the losing end of this spectrum. IMHO, the M3 will be a very good compromise.

[Seattle S65B40]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Again, I love my M3. Ive owned more than nearly everyone here, so obviously there is something (actually many things) I do really like about them.
If it wasnt neccesary that I have a car that flies under the radar a bit more, Id still be in a Pcar, but being as young as I am theres plenty more time in life for more of them.

^ Yet another thing I love about M3s. It's a car that you can have that isn't too flashy like GT3 or GTR, yet still everything you'd want from performance DD. I have a nicer car than most of my seniors at the office, but they don't know that, and I don't want them to either. It's better to be modest and fly under the radar when you're young. Whether we like it or not, people judge. Why give them more to judge you upon when it could adversely affect employment relationships, etc?

[mkiv808]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Um, it *only* comes with a manual in the US. You are in the US, right?

Ohhh, I misread. I didn't realize the RS was coming to the US.

Might not be a bad option in a few years, but I'll never buy new and take a depreciation hit.

[twin turbo]

I traded a 2009 Cayman S (new direct injected motor with 320hp) on my 2011 M3 Coupe. I know this is going to create some stir, but I would take the Cayman S again over the GTR any day of the week. I have owned them both, so I know from experience. The GTR was a bore to drive and the DCT was horrible. You could not hear the exhaust or the turbos in stock form. I think a modified GTR (exhaust, downpipes, tune) would be a different story. The finish was coming off the stick shift the first month I owned the car, gauges are horrible, typical Nissan. The GTR looks okay from certain angles as does the Porsche, but there are angles that are ugly for both cars. Not so with the M3 Coupe, great looking car from any angle. Couldn't swing a 911S at the time, or that is what I would have purchased. I really like the M3, the sound of the V8, the plush interior, sound system, modern electronics etc., but there are very few cars that feel like a Porsche. If you are a driving enthusiast where feel is priority one, the Porsche is the way to go. Can't speak first hand for Ferrari, Lambo, etc. It is the best car I have driven to date, and as you can see I have driven a few. I can't even imagine what a GT3 (dream car) feels like behind the wheel. Free maintenance on the BMW is awesome, maintenance on the Porsche was beginning to get out of hand. Just my opinion. Good luck with your decision.

[stiles_s]

One reason I love the internet: I can find people who swap out cars faster than I do

I came from an '08 987S -> '11 E90 ZCP M3. Prior to the 987S, I had an '03 996 C2, among others.

My 987S was a Boxster, but having driven the Cayman I find them quite similar (mine had the Cayman's drivetrain and the sports suspension fwiw).

I needed back seats (kids), so that was the driving factor.

A few thoughts on the comparo:
987S Pro:
- steering feel
- handling
- lightness (simply the feeling of lightness)
- gas mileage
- more fun at legal speeds -- you're more insulated from the experience in the M3

M3 Pro:
- that engine. hand crafted v8 vs a version of the flat-6 that was a cheap hack by Porsche compared to the previous air-cooled mills. Prone to grenading (before the rearchitected DFI version in '09 -- whose track record is still unproven). I didn't want to live with an engine long-term that was built so cheaply. With the M3, the engine feels like a masterpiece -- it's the soul of the car.
- practicality and rear seats (if you need them)

Both are great cars, and are quite close in terms of overall performance. I'm not into the closed minded M3>"foo" debates. Each car has its compromises. Oh, and GT3>Everything