Sharing your stock verus modded dyno #s

[ricardofors68]

Still can't wrap my mind around how are the S65 platform not making much more hp past 400 with stock internals. Been secretly thinking about swapping a N54 in there. High revving V8 is great, sounds magical, got it, damn it man, more power Scotty!

[pbonsalb]

It will make close to 600 rwhp and 400 lbs rwtq with stock internals and a supercharger and exhaust on 93 pump.

[ricardofors68]

Yes it will, has to be supercharged though

[Shrike360]

Originally Posted by ricardofors68

Still can't wrap my mind around how are the S65 platform not making much more hp past 400 with stock internals. Been secretly thinking about swapping a N54 in there. High revving V8 is great, sounds magical, got it, damn it man, more power Scotty!

If all you really want is more power, just go buy an F8x. They're readily found below $50k these days, and the S55 is a much better engine than the N54 (except for sound, but the N54 doesn't sound that good unless it's converted to a single). Though if you want cheap power, you can go pick up a $7k 335i and slap the biggest turbo you can find on it. It doesn't handle the power well, but it does have a lot of it.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by ricardofors68

Still can't wrap my mind around how are the S65 platform not making much more hp past 400 with stock internals. Been secretly thinking about swapping a N54 in there. High revving V8 is great, sounds magical, got it, damn it man, more power Scotty!

You have to remember the S65 makes over 100hp/litre normally aspirated. There isn't going to be much more headroom unless you push the revs even higher.

Dave

[pbonsalb]

It does well for 4.0L NA port injection at 414 crank hp. Porsche gets 500 crank hp out of 4.0L NA, but at 2.5x the price.

[8500RPM]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

It does well for 4.0L NA port injection at 414 crank hp. Porsche gets 500 crank hp out of 4.0L NA, but at 2.5x the price.

Yeah people don't realize whats going on here. A similar motor design Lexus 1UZ is a quad cam 4.0 V8 VVTI and it made 300HP max in stock form.

[ricardofors68]

But did it have to be so expensive to modify? Really not interested in any kind of boost, so 4.0l v8 it is.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by ricardofors68

But did it have to be so expensive to modify? Really not interested in any kind of boost, so 4.0l v8 it is.

You're totally changing the argument here.

Which question is it?

- You can't understand why a very high specific output baby V8 can't make 8 thousand horsepower.

or

- You can't understand why it's so expensive to modify.

Then you say you're not interested in any kind of boost and yet your'e 'secretly' planning an N54 swap.

Let's try to stay on topic.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by ricardofors68

But did it have to be so expensive to modify? Really not interested in any kind of boost, so 4.0l v8 it is.

I don’t think it is expensive to mod. I bought a used set of pulleys for $175, a used intake for $200, a top speed x-pipe (less expensive new than most others) for $475, a used Megan rear exhaust for $300, and a used Vishnu Procede tubeable piggyback with meth system for $1400 (raises timing targets when flowing). I probably added 15% power and it is definitely enough to feel.

I don’t think I will be adding headers or cams. Instead, I may buy a used supercharger kit. Honestly, I thought the car was a bit dull in stock form. What I did wakes it up enough to be entertaining. I have had it 8 years and started modding in year 2.

My other car is a turbo E36 M3 with 600 lbs rwtq. I like massive torque but have also found the E90 M3 to be a practical comfy cruiser that is decently quick if you add some mods and use the redline. My next car will likely be AWD and auto/DCT/pdk and turbo — I am one of those who would rather have a 991TT than a GT3 since 99.9% of my driving is on the street not the track and I drive year round including rain and snow.

[ricardofors68]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

You're totally changing the argument here.

Which question is it?

- You can't understand why a very high specific output baby V8 can't make 8 thousand horsepower.

or

- You can't understand why it's so expensive to modify.

Then you say you're not interested in any kind of boost and yet your'e 'secretly' planning an N54 swap.

Let's try to stay on topic.

What I mean is not going supercharged, the thought of the N54 swap is not because is turbo, but the gains achieved on a factory platform.
Not looking for 1000hp, just wanted to see if there's a way to get a realistic over 400whp. As popular as a M3 car, and all its v8 fans, myself included, I figured there would be more than one or two vendors asking major cash for a stroker kit, a set of cams, etc.
Just comparing it, maybe unfairly, to my previous LS equipped car.
Maybe is that I'm comparing the different ways GM and BMW go about making or delivering their power. OHV vs DOHC is not necessarily apples to apples.

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I don’t think it is expensive to mod. I bought a used set of pulleys for $175, a used intake for $200, a top speed x-pipe (less expensive new than most others) for $475, a used Megan rear exhaust for $300, and a used Vishnu Procede tubeable piggyback with meth system for $1400 (raises timing targets when flowing). I probably added 15% power and it is definitely enough to feel.

I don’t think I will be adding headers or cams. Instead, I may buy a used supercharger kit. Honestly, I thought the car was a bit dull in stock form. What I did wakes it up enough to be entertaining. I have had it 8 years and started modding in year 2.

My other car is a turbo E36 M3 with 600 lbs rwtq. I like massive torque but have also found the E90 M3 to be a practical comfy cruiser that is decently quick if you add some mods and use the redline. My next car will likely be AWD and auto/DCT/pdk and turbo — I am one of those who would rather have a 991TT than a GT3 since 99.9% of my driving is on the street not the track and I drive year round including rain and snow.

Right you are as far as bolts ons are concerned, I'm straight pipe, pulley, intake and tune. Maybe headers next.

[pbonsalb]

Headers are expensive for the gain.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by ricardofors68

What I mean is not going supercharged, the thought of the N54 swap is not because is turbo, but the gains achieved on a factory platform.
Not looking for 1000hp, just wanted to see if there's a way to get a realistic over 400whp. As popular as a M3 car, and all its v8 fans, myself included, I figured there would be more than one or two vendors asking major cash for a stroker kit, a set of cams, etc.
Just comparing it, maybe unfairly, to my previous LS equipped car.
Maybe is that I'm comparing the different ways GM and BMW go about making or delivering their power. OHV vs DOHC is not necessarily apples to apples.



Right you are as far as bolts ons are concerned, I'm straight pipe, pulley, intake and tune. Maybe headers next.

There were more than a few companies offering striker motors, and there still are.

Not many people are willing to spend 30k for 75 ft lb and 50 hp. Used motors are 9k.

And for sure it's impossible to compare to the LS that's been around for 75 years. This is a one time application of an complex motor. There nothing in common other than the number of cylinders.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by ricardofors68

What I mean is not going supercharged, the thought of the N54 swap is not because is turbo, but the gains achieved on a factory platform.
Not looking for 1000hp, just wanted to see if there's a way to get a realistic over 400whp. As popular as a M3 car, and all its v8 fans, myself included, I figured there would be more than one or two vendors asking major cash for a stroker kit, a set of cams, etc.
Just comparing it, maybe unfairly, to my previous LS equipped car.
Maybe is that I'm comparing the different ways GM and BMW go about making or delivering their power. OHV vs DOHC is not necessarily apples to apples.



Right you are as far as bolts ons are concerned, I'm straight pipe, pulley, intake and tune. Maybe headers next.

The LS small block is 6.2L, so 55% bigger than the S65.... or more than half again as much motor.

Besides, who gives a crap *how much* power it makes. It's about how fun it is, not the number it puts down.

[M3AN_S65]

I think it's about having a well balanced car. I see too many people that continues to talk about wanting as much power as possible just to brag but will never use the car for what it's really built for. Spend an enormous amount of money to say I have a shitload of power but scared to get dust on the car. SMH..... Even a stock M3 with a fine tuned suspension is enough to have fun on the track IMO.

[pbonsalb]

These cars were built mostly for people to cruise around in, to use as a status symbol, to be commuter cars. Probably 1% get tracked. Power is great for straightline performance and it seems to me like my car spends much more time going in a straight line than around turns.

[Pro-AM3]

N54 are junk. many thousands of $$ to go no faster than S/C S65s with hundred of times more headaches. same with the s55. remember tq is fun, but RPMs win races. I dont miss my upgraded 335 1 bit, i do miss my s/c m3 everyday

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

These cars were built mostly for people to cruise around in, to use as a status symbol, to be commuter cars. Probably 1% get tracked. Power is great for straightline performance and it seems to me like my car spends much more time going in a straight line than around turns.

I think these cars would be *perfect* with a bit more midrange punch - say 40ftlbs between 4-6k rpm.

This would allow access to a bit more 'fun' without having to redline it. And redlining it is just too fast on the street, above second gear. And so I find myself very often in third gear, right in the midrange, wanting more oomph, without having to wind it out to 110mph (6mt) in order to smile.

[pbonsalb]

All the bolt on mods won’t get you there. You might gain 20-25 lbs tq but you can gain 40-45 rwhp depending on your baseline. It’s just a 4.0L and a high strung one at that. You can’t have both great torque AND high rpm hp.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

All the bolt on mods won’t get you there. You might gain 20-25 lbs tq but you can gain 40-45 rwhp depending on your baseline. It’s just a 4.0L and a high strung one at that. You can’t have both great torque AND high rpm hp.

Yes, but are the bolt-ons worth it? Do they wake it up enough, from your perspective?

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Yes, but are the bolt-ons worth it? Do they wake it up enough, from your perspective?

The bolt ons are absolutely worth it for me...intake, test pipes (with tune), exhaust, and solid SFB and poly diff bushings make this car so much more enjoyable and really don't cost that much.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Yes, but are the bolt-ons worth it? Do they wake it up enough, from your perspective?

For me, yes. I went from thinking the performance was dull to thinking it was entertaining. I have all the bolt on mods, mostly installed during years 2-4 of the 8 years I have had the car. The 10-15% power I added can’t make a dramatic performance improvement so some of what I like might be from added induction and exhaust sounds. It did seem to me like there was a noticeable bump in low rpm torque from the x-pipe.

Still, I might supercharge it in a year or two, but the fact that I have not yet means I am still enjoying its performance.