Blackstone Skype call discussion about Rod Bearings

[Magnetic Fusion]

Hey guys. Theres a YouTuber I follow that just did the Blackstone analysis and was able to get a rep on a Skype call to discuss the process and what have ya. The first 3 minutes should put most people at ease with high mileage S65 motors. Take a look. This guy makes decent videos.

[bigjae1976]

Interesting video. Thanks!

[Fearce]

Cars that fail don't get samples sent in. Their sample set is just not likely to include S65 engines that are near failure.

I just sent in a sample so I'm safe now.

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by Fearce

Cars that fail don't get samples sent in.

I agree, I don't think someone with a blown motor is going to send an oil sample in.


I would be that the tiny few that have blown motors, I'm sure a few sent in for a report. the outcome compared to the medians is probably a very small sample size.

[squartus]

Yea and my main bearings spun like 6k after my last oil report, which was perfect. Its still a good thing to have done, just don't expect it to catch any and all failures.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Fearce

Cars that fail don't get samples sent in. Their sample set is just not likely to include S65 engines that are near failure.

I just sent in a sample so I'm safe now.

Ha!

Actually, a UOA from a blown engine would be really amusing. The particulate counts would be off the charts.

"Sample could not be tested due to fragments of piston jamming the machine"

[bigjae1976]

I bought my E46 M3. Did an analysis and while waiting for the results, spun a rod bearing at the track on Sun. Oil analysis was emailed to me the following Monday. Came back high for lead and copper.

It's a clue and probably worth it to save a $15k S65.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I bought my E46 M3. Did an analysis and while waiting for the results, spun a rod bearing at the track on Sun. Oil analysis was emailed to me the following Monday. Came back high for lead and copper.

It's a clue and probably worth it to save a $15k S65.

On the other hand..Please read #5 on this page => http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1338870
Pics from his bearings you can see under his *perfect Blackstone report*
Note: His bearings were replaced only *100 miles* after Blackstone..
Finally Blackstone said...Looks like you picked up a good one !

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

On the other hand..Please read #5 on this page => http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1338870
Pics from his bearings you can see under his *perfect Blackstone report*
Note: His bearings were replaced only *100 miles* after Blackstone..
Finally Blackstone said...Looks like you picked up a good one !

Agreed. I think its a waste to do an analysis EVERY oil change. A "bad" report actually tells you something. A "good" report doesn't mean anything.

What we all should do is...if we start seeing higher copper and lead then you need to prepare to take action. There is a high probability that your rod bearing(s) are showing copper. But its just a clue.

If we get a report and all of the numbers are good. We look at it, ball it up and put it in the trash. It really doesn't tell you very much.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Agreed. I think its a waste to do an analysis EVERY oil change. A "bad" report actually tells you something. A "good" report doesn't mean anything.

What we all should do is...if we start seeing higher copper and lead then you need to prepare to take action. There is a high probability that your rod bearing(s) are showing copper. But its just a clue.

If we get a report and all of the numbers are good. We look at it, ball it up and put it in the trash. It really doesn't tell you very much.

I agree .. but we never know with our S65 engine , and that's the big problem .

[club rsx ftw]

This is helpful, thanks for posting.

Is the Blackstone analysis unique to the M in any way, or just a generic analysis for gas engines? I'm changing the oil tomorrow and requested the kit. Just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

[Magnetic Fusion]

Originally Posted by club rsx ftw

This is helpful, thanks for posting.

Is the Blackstone analysis unique to the M in any way, or just a generic analysis for gas engines? I'm changing the oil tomorrow and requested the kit. Just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

It's a generic oil analysis company. But they see the number one car that gets sent in is the E9x M3. But he even said it's as common as you think. So they have looked in the S65 engine pretty well to accurately measure what metals and parts those metals come from

[Magnetic Fusion]

Originally Posted by dparm

Ha!

Actually, a UOA from a blown engine would be really amusing. The particulate counts would be off the charts.

"Sample could not be tested due to fragments of piston jamming the machine"

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I bought my E46 M3. Did an analysis and while waiting for the results, spun a rod bearing at the track on Sun. Oil analysis was emailed to me the following Monday. Came back high for lead and copper.

It's a clue and probably worth it to save a $15k S65.

I just got my analysis done....2x times copper...like 4x amount of lead. Their normal was 8 for lead I have 29. So looks like I'll be doing this sooner than later

[cognoscenti]

I've been searching the forum and have yet to find an answer to this question: since the 2011+ cars used a different rod bearing material, does a Blackstone report have any value for those cars? If so, what higher ppm count are they measuring?

I ask because Turner wants to sell replacement rod bearings, and their site says "The new BMW bearings do not use copper or lead so an oil analysis will not alert you to heavy bearing wear".

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by Magnetic Fusion

I just got my analysis done....2x times copper...like 4x amount of lead. Their normal was 8 for lead I have 29. So looks like I'll be doing this sooner than later

I wouldn't wait. We do these tests for a reason. If you don't do the bearings right away I would send another sample in within a thousand miles. It's so easy to pull a couple oz of oil there's no point waiting til the next change when you are throwing that much lead. If it's got high lead after that short run, you may not make it til another change. Not trying to scare you but many failures happen quickly, out of the blue. This uoa may be your only warning. I just got a report back Friday. It's the fourth one I've done on an engine that was installed August 2016. Luckily it's not thrown more than 1 ppm copper or lead, but if I had your report I would make a move.

I don't know why people don't run uoa's much more frequently. Sure they're good for monitoring long term trends but they can also clue you into a major problem if you're lucky enough to take the sample at the right time. The only way to increase the odds of catching an impending failure is to increase the frequency of your testing. The higher the metal numbers are, the more samples I'd send in. It takes five minutes. People will spend $3k on a nearly useless exhaust but scoff at spending $28 a month on oil analisys. Doesn't make sense.

[PandaM3]

Any benefit to doing blackstone reports if the rod bearings have already been changed?

I thought the new ones don't have copper or lead.

What metals would I need to look for now?

[dparm]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

Any benefit to doing blackstone reports if the rod bearings have already been changed?

I thought the new ones don't have copper or lead.

What metals would I need to look for now?

Same as always: deviation from the norms you establish for your specific motor with the first few reports.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

Any benefit to doing blackstone reports if the rod bearings have already been changed?

I thought the new ones don't have copper or lead.

What metals would I need to look for now?

What rod bearings did you change to? Some aftermarket shells still have a lead babbitt.

[PandaM3]

Originally Posted by dparm

Same as always: deviation from the norms you establish for your specific motor with the first few reports.

I guess I should just start doing it again...

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

What rod bearings did you change to? Some aftermarket shells still have a lead babbitt.

I have the WPC coated rod bearings

[Doc Oc]

So aluminum and tin are what you're looking for now. They don't shed like lead bearings though so keep a close eye on trends like Dparm said.

[young dude]

Originally Posted by cognoscenti

I've been searching the forum and have yet to find an answer to this question: since the 2011+ cars used a different rod bearing material, does a Blackstone report have any value for those cars? If so, what higher ppm count are they measuring?

I ask because Turner wants to sell replacement rod bearings, and their site says "The new BMW bearings do not use copper or lead so an oil analysis will not alert you to heavy bearing wear".

I'd love to know too.

[Denk]

Cool vid. At least the house doesn't have the advantage.