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03-23-2011, 06:23 PM | #89 | |
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for what it's worth, the differences in engine weights might make up for a 50-75lbs difference at most when compared to the compact, all aluminum v8 in the M3.
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03-23-2011, 06:48 PM | #90 | |
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last but not least.... NUMBERS DO NOT TELL YOU THE WHOLE STORY OF A CAR. If the car you want is not an M3.. then fine, I have no problem with that... buy a different car.. but don't piss and moan because M aren't making exactly the car you want, to a magical specification you've plucked out of the air.. It would be nice if BMW gave the transparency to see where weight came from.. but for now, it's safe to assume that they know more about it than we do, and if the best they can offer is not good enough for you, then go and buy a f'in Prius, or GT-R, or Corvette.. |
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03-23-2011, 06:58 PM | #91 | |
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People seem to expect BMW to re-invent this car as something it is not... this is the 'affordable' high performance variant of the companies bread & butter car... not just a track day monster, or an exclusive vehicle for those that can afford Hypercars.... Consider what the E30, E36 and E46 M3's actually were, in practice and in spirit, and tell me where the E92 falls down in comparison! |
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03-23-2011, 07:04 PM | #92 | |
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03-23-2011, 07:24 PM | #93 |
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Yeah, but even with a V8, 3,500 lbs, or even a bit less, shouldn't be too difficult to achieve.
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03-23-2011, 07:51 PM | #94 | |
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2. 7 series steering effort & feel 3. lack of edginess especially on the street.
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03-23-2011, 07:52 PM | #95 | |
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Korea pay 100k for M3 Aus pays 120k for 1M and 160k for M3... *estimated |
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03-23-2011, 07:56 PM | #96 | ||
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Not sure if the mustang, corvette, or CTS-V are sold elsewhere, but that doesn't mean much when the US is the biggest market for ford, cadillac, chevrolet, and bmw. Quote:
the next M3 won't have a V8 either; it will probably have a recycled turbo engine from some other car in the lineup. i love the idea of a high revving, naturally aspirated M engine, but that's not in the cards. i might be missing your point on bringing up the v8 though. if you are talking in terms of weight, the V8 is light; lighter than lots of other engines with fewer cylinders.
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03-23-2011, 08:30 PM | #97 |
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03-23-2011, 08:45 PM | #98 |
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03-24-2011, 01:20 AM | #99 |
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Not exactly what you want but close is available at BMWfans.info!
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03-24-2011, 01:22 AM | #100 | |
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03-24-2011, 01:26 AM | #101 | ||
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Finally a sensible post! Quote:
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03-24-2011, 01:32 AM | #102 | ||
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Now that being said they are highly modified versions with all of the key systems that make a car perform being designed just for the M car. However, the percentages common will go up as this is a known major corporate wide effort at BMW - more commonality. This is the the biggest reason we will likely get an I-6 turbo in the F3X M3. Quote:
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03-24-2011, 02:16 AM | #103 | |
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Exciting that you are able to begin using more and more advanced intelligent lightweight materials in (unique) applications that likely are fitting for the material properties and benefits they give. Looking very forward to your 'advanced materials showcase car' in Tokyo. Thanks for your posting, viel mals dank und mehr freude am fahren...
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03-24-2011, 06:33 AM | #104 |
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Can we cut to the chase?
After BMW has informed us all of what the future holds or may hold for ///M, what specifically will be the compelling factors to purchase an ///M over models offered by manufacturers who produce models to compete with a specific ///M model for yours and my business? In the case of the next generation M3, what will it bring to the table that would compel any of us to pass on all other BMW identified competitors?
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03-24-2011, 08:48 AM | #105 | ||||
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Respectfully - none of these and similar responses provide one defined, quantifiable suggestion of satisfying the demands made here. There was not one specific example of adding/changing/implementing any particular aspect of the product that reaches the goals and is marketable.
"Faster and lighter" are difficult and contradict the "cheaper" goal. Example: the very first (and non-specific) suggestion is self-disclaimed at the start with "though not lighter." That's exactly the point. So then we have ... "prius only weighs 3042lbs" - but it doesn't do "fast;" "how about a corvette (3200lbs)" - but it doesn't have a back seat, and a truly competitive model is expensive; "let's consider that a cayman S only weighs 2976 lbs" - but it doesn't have a back seat, it doesn't handle like a BMW and it is expensive. Quote:
And have you driven them? Would you spend your money on them instead of a BMW or a Porsche? For the purpose of saving $10,000? And absorb the higher depreciation? How many people here, or you, with a car enthusiast's mindset have actually purchased one instead of a BMW? Quote:
Add cost, contradict "cheaper." Add cost, contradict "cheaper." Add cost, contradict "cheaper" and "lighter." Quote:
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Critiquing products is very easy - sit back and pick. Coming up with real alternatives that are usable is very difficult, and hasn't happened in this Forum very much. I'm not defending BMW. I'm looking for support for alternatives. Last edited by hlmiii; 03-24-2011 at 08:57 AM.. |
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03-24-2011, 02:47 PM | #107 | |||
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i do want to reiterate that finding a currently produced car to fit all three categories is not necessary to prove that it can be done by bmw. i merely showed that it's not impossible to do. gotta think big picture, not get stuck on the details. i think that focusing on other cars in the market is one of the problems plaguing bmw presently and it conflicts with bmw's past stance of innovation, advancement, and leading. it used to be that bmw was the de-facto performance car before you get into exotic territory. how do you think bmw got that reputation and how do you think that compares to their current mindset? the M brand epitomizes this leadership role and has defined the bmw brand. this is great for bmw because their customers know what bmw stands for and will stay loyal, but the question is, how long will that last when they are not living up to this definition? especially when cars typically considered "lesser brands" are upping their game to compete on the same level. Quote:
again, it's not that bmw can't make a car that enthusiasts will love (as i tried to document with my previous post), it's that they won't for whatever reason. bmw is no longer the "ultimate driving machine" (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-with-the-joy/). what excites you about bmw now? it's becoming harder and harder for me to come up with responses.
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03-24-2011, 04:48 PM | #109 |
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The folks in Munich remember all too well. They simply decided that BMW is going to live by a different set of rules now that it's grown up; kinda like the kid that leaves home. There will be lessons of life and business too be learned. Wish'em luck.
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03-25-2011, 07:29 AM | #110 | |
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As far as BMW then vs. now in terms of the competition, I would agree that twenty years ago in the next-to-exotic category, there was virtually nothing else. And today it's definitely not like that - there is viable competition. But it's not because BMW has fallen behind. It's because Audi, Ford, Cadillac, Lexus and others have drastically reconfigured their operations to jump into BMW's game. They saw a good thing, a market, and ... learned from, targeted and copied BMW. Maybe even more significantly - there are FAR more people with far more money for this segment now than there were twenty years ago. The numbers/percentages of upper incomes has ballooned since the early 1980's. So a segment that was previously filled by BMW opened up and was entered by others. I'd say that just because there is serious competition does not mean that BMW has fallen off. It's because others have taken the foundation that BMW pioneered and entered the territory. And once again ... I am looking for (now, even) ONE concrete idea of how BMW could do what some here want - satisfy our contradictory demands and criticisms. And make it viable in the marketplace. I have not seen anything. What you want, obviously. Interesting: the fact that you find yourself raising the question is verification that there isn't an readily identifiable better choice! Meaning that BMW is still at the top, right? Good question, especially because over two hours ago I walked into my garage. It houses a Gallardo, a Diablo, (an SV is off site), a 135, and an E60 M5. Which to drive???? I choose the M5. I WANTED to get into the seat, push the button, grab the wheel, and feel it at speed during my 10-mile trip into the office. What excites me about this? It feels right. Like nothing else. There is a sense of complete confidence, complete coherence, engineering brilliance, design experience, and integration of all of the car's aspects that is simply unmatched. There are cars that go faster, that are lighter, that are more cutting edge technologically, that have some item that is arguably better or cooler. But there just isn't anything out there that hits all of the targets as closely and assuredly as a BMW. BTW - a good discussion. Thanks. |
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