Tesla Model S

[docbolo]

Test drive one and you'll be drowning in the kool aid bro.

3000 miles and I haven't missed the M3 (still sitting in garage gathering dust).

[signes]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

I'm really interested in the Model S and hope to pick one up in the future (not as an M3 replacement), but it sounds like you drank too much of the Kool-Aid.

lol, I'll say.

Some excerpts:
"That said, I write the following review as objectively as possible."

"I am convinced that what Tesla has done here is profound and after the dust settles and the pessimists and oil lobbyists disappear in a few years people will view the Tesla as a milestone equivalent to the transition from horse and buggy to ICE."

"Since I go to work very early and leave late I usually have the whole road and freeway to myself and therefore drive like I'm on the autobahn."

"...if you are a passenger you will be forcefully pushed back (a near whiplash experience) and you will not be able to move your neck easily until the driver lets up from the accelerator"

"...if I was at BMW I'd be as worried as Blackberry or Nokia should have been in 2007 when iPhone was released"

And my favorite: "Seriously folks, the MS has just rendered all other cars on the road obsolete."

Objective, of course you are! Thanks for a good laugh!

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by 4sevens.com

My performance S is faster off the line than my e90 m3 ess vt2-625. Torque is instant and constant 440ft lbs from 0-50.

I love the Model S. It's revolutionary for sure. I would have bought it as well but the "range issue" is a concern. I take road trips occasionally and in fact just did a drive to Pebble Beach in the X5 and just couldn't have done it with the Model S. Maybe the X5 will be replaced with the Model S or Model X in a few years.

BUT, c'mon man, when you say the Model S (even with the top battery) is faster than your SC 625 M3 off the line, either 1) you are comparing it in the rain, 2) have a major traction problem (need better tires, skillz, etc), or 3) a major issue with the M3 in general. Yes it's easier to just floor the Model S where the M3 takes practice and finesse.

A stock M3 would be a good match for the top Model S in a straight line...both off the line and a roll-on.

I've done pulls against the top Model S. On a roll-on at 35mph it was literally a joke. After a few seconds I could barely see the Model S in my rear-view. Off the line the Model S stayed with me in first gear until I short-shifted at 5K rpm at around 25mph and then I just flew away from it. And yes both cars were going 100% WOT.

Like I've said before, this stuff is the future of performance. Batteries will get better and lighter and someone will figure out how to get the equivalent of 1,500 HP into a tiny car and balance the weight perfectly. I'm looking forward to this.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

I love the Model S. It's revolutionary for sure. I would have bought it as well but the "range issue" is a concern. I take road trips occasionally and in fact just did a drive to Pebble Beach in the X5 and just couldn't have done it with the Model S. Maybe the X5 will be replaced with the Model S or Model X in a few years.

BUT, c'mon man, when you say the Model S (even with the top battery) is faster than your SC 625 M3 off the line, either 1) you are comparing it in the rain, 2) have a major traction problem (need better tires, skillz, etc), or 3) a major issue with the M3 in general. Yes it's easier to just floor the Model S where the M3 takes practice and finesse.

A stock M3 would be a good match for the top Model S in a straight line...both off the line and a roll-on.

I've done pulls against the top Model S. On a roll-on at 35mph it was literally a joke. After a few seconds I could barely see the Model S in my rear-view. Off the line the Model S stayed with me in first gear until I short-shifted at 5K rpm at around 25mph and then I just flew away from it. And yes both cars were going 100% WOT.

Like I've said before, this stuff is the future of performance. Batteries will get better and lighter and someone will figure out how to get the equivalent of 1,500 HP into a tiny car and balance the weight perfectly. I'm looking forward to this.

The problem is, most people judge performance on seat of the pants feel. This is why so many 335i owners think their car is much faster than the M3. The Model S feels fast (and yes it is) and feels like it handles on rails. But from what I've seen, it runs very slow lap times at the track. I really want a Model S for my daily, but in no way would I ever get one to replace the M3. It just doesn't satisfy in the same way.

[pkimM3r]

yes very slow lap times. i wonder if anyone has blown up a battery at the track yet

[M3ZCP6MT]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

just stay with him next time for a while and let his battery die!!!!!

[docbolo]

Wouldn't expect anything less than what you guys have responded. Enjoy your M3s, great cars for sure (still own mine).

But the orgasmic rush of power and incredible handling and ability to haul 7 people and luggage is something to be experienced before passing judgement...

[jeff2015]

I can't comprehend why people would think to track a Model S. Yes, the electric vehicle has power but like most have mentioned; they will have a track car next to their Model S.

[M3forMe]

Just got the award of being the safest car ever tested. Musk is getting things right. Performance, safety, great to see an American company pushing the envelop and making such an awesome car.

[docbolo]

That's exactly right. I keep the M3 for the 2 times a year I got to Chuckwalla to race. That's it.

And most of us here are American. We should be celebrating the fact that we can still kick major ass. Have you seen the i3 and i8?? They are 5-7 years behind Tesla on technology just like Apple was in 2007.

[quads]

Originally Posted by 4sevens.com

Mr sunsweet - looks like we are in the same state... Let's meet and then I'll let you explain first hand PM me

Sunsweet - PM me. Let's meet and go for a drive.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by docbolo

That's exactly right. I keep the M3 for the 2 times a year I got to Chuckwalla to race. That's it.

And most of us here are American. We should be celebrating the fact that we can still kick major ass. Have you seen the i3 and i8?? They are 5-7 years behind Tesla on technology just like Apple was in 2007.

What??

[LarThaL]

Have people have also considered that in the end all these electric cars are simply exchanging one form of pollution for another. Think about all the plastics and toxic chemicals related to these enormous batteries. Furthermore, the electricity to charge them still has to be generated somewhere. If I am not mistaken, most electricity is still generated by the burning of fossil fuels. As such, the net result could be even worse for the environment. Increased fossil fuel burning to generate electricity, and now, increased toxic waste products.

How about building smaller, lighter vehicles. Think about the performance and fuel economy you would get from an M5 the size of an e39 M5, using todays materials technology, and engine design with things like cylinder deactivation and direct injection. Think about the same technology applied to a base 3-series that was the size of a 320 from the 1990s. Why, despite all this concern, have cars continued to get larger and heavier?

[M3forMe]

Not everyone wants a small car. Performance is also going to be a key indicator for part of the populate. So far engine technology has not been able to deliver crazy performance results while getting good gas mileage. Just hasn't happened. Electric can get crazy performance and once they get the range up you will see more and more PERFORMANCE ar companies going electric. I think Tesla has just tipped the iceberg over with this Tesla Model S.

BTW the best place with unlimited supply of energy is the sun. Buy a Tesla and then go get Obama to pay for your new solar panels on your roof. That is the best of both worlds.

[docbolo]

I certainly realize that trying to reason with all of you on the superiority of a Tesla over any ICE car is futile on this board, nor do I care. BUT, I am (or was) one of you guys until a few months ago. I had the same arguments about the pollution, the weight, the uncertainty of where to charge, etc.

I have solar panels on my roof that make me completely energy independent in that regard. The argument that battery cars produce waste in production ignores the waste that ICE cars also cause during their production. I like the idea of never giving another penny to our enemies (to hell with OPEC). However, nothing convinced me more than actually driving the car.

So as one M3 dude to another, before you pass judgement or recite media arguments against electric cars, JUST TEST DRIVE ONE.

[Blotman]

Originally Posted by docbolo

So as one M3 dude to another, before you pass judgement or recite media arguments against electric cars, JUST TEST DRIVE ONE.

This part is important. It seems like the loudest critics of electric vehicles are the ones that have never tried to live with one, let alone test drive one. Performance numbers aside, whether it's Tesla Model S or Nissan Leaf, the electric motor just feels great! For me this is the easiest and most compelling point to argue for EVs over ICE. You're never going to find a gas motored car with the smoothness, response, and ease of use as an electric.

Even though my EV is a motorcycle, my M3 sits under a cover until I need to go to the store. I'll most likely replace it with a Tesla if I start needing a car more often in the future. I also think it would be enjoyable at the track. As rewarding as it is to get that perfect heal-to-toe to put myself in the right power band, I'd prefer to already have all the power available regardless allowing me to focus extra on my lines. If only they'd install Tesla Supercharger stations at some of these tracks.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by Blotman

This part is important. It seems like the loudest critics of electric vehicles are the ones that have never tried to live with one, let alone test drive one. Performance numbers aside, whether it's Tesla Model S or Nissan Leaf, the electric motor just feels great! For me this is the easiest and most compelling point to argue for EVs over ICE. You're never going to find a gas motored car with the smoothness, response, and ease of use as an electric.

Even though my EV is a motorcycle, my M3 sits under a cover until I need to go to the store. I'll most likely replace it with a Tesla if I start needing a car more often in the future. I also think it would be enjoyable at the track. As rewarding as it is to get that perfect heal-to-toe to put myself in the right power band, I'd prefer to already have all the power available regardless allowing me to focus extra on my lines. If only they'd install Tesla Supercharger stations at some of these tracks.

Docbolo assumes everyone is like him and that the things that he likes about the cars is what will sell everyone else. Personally I don't care about high torque and brutal acceleration. If that was the case, I'd be in a GTR. And yes I've driven the GTR pretty extensively and have ridden in one on a race track. Sure its fun, but there are far more important things for me in a car. I'd be utterly bored in the Model S if it were my only car because I like all of the interaction that comes with a manual transmission. I also take my car to the track fairly often which would also rule out owning the Model S as a replacement to the M3. In reality there's little reason for me to cross-shop an M3 and Model S. They serve different purposes.

With that said, I really want a Model S for getting around town with my kids. It seems like the perfect car for that. The performance is just a huge bonus and not the primary reason for wanting it. There is no perfect car that does everything well. You have to compromise on something, even with the Model S.

[docbolo]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Docbolo assumes everyone is like him and that the things that he likes about the cars is what will sell everyone else. Personally I don't care about high torque and brutal acceleration.

Well I don't assume that at all. Just giving my 2 cents impression as a long time M3 owner and someone that tracks their car. The only thing I perhaps naively assume is that most people would like brutal torque, acceleration, AND the handling prowess of an M3 and achieve that while hauling 7 people, groceries, and not using a drop of gas for up to 250 miles at a time.

You know Radiant, there are many advantages I can recite of riding a horse over driving an M3! It's all relative...

p.s. I have driven a GTR and a GT3 and they truly feel like lesser machines - and the owners of those cars tested my MS and agree. Best friend owns an R8 V10, and NOW an MS... Just test drive it dude!

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by docbolo

Well I don't assume that at all. Just giving my 2 cents impression as a long time M3 owner and someone that tracks their car. The only thing I perhaps naively assume is that most people would like brutal torque, acceleration, AND the handling prowess of an M3 and achieve that while hauling 7 people, groceries, and not using a drop of gas for up to 250 miles at a time.

You know Radiant, there are many advantages I can recite of riding a horse over driving an M3! It's all relative...

Its a good thing no one here is cross-shopping between a horse and M3.

Also worth noting is that nobody knows your driving skill level so saying that the Model S handles better than the M3 doesn't hold much value. What you feel in a car and what's going on in reality are always 2 different things. Just because a car's body roll is less pronounced doesn't necessarily mean its gripping more. Just as being thrown back in your seat because of the rush of low end torque doesn't necessarily mean you are going faster than a car that doesn't give you that experience. Take both cars around a race track and compare lap times and cornering speeds with real data. That's how you can convince people around here. From what I've seen, the Model S is very slow around the track which seems to indicate its handling isn't quite up to par as you say considering how much power it produces.

[docbolo]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Its a good thing no one here is cross-shopping between a horse and M3.

LOL. Ok Radiant, you have good points for sure. If you are ever in the San Diego area and want to take mine for a spin you are welcome

p.s. Beware - the guy who owns the GTR (with MS on order now) was drooling and stuttering during his testdrive and couldnt stop grinning, I thought he was having a stroke.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by docbolo

LOL. Ok Radiant, you have good points for sure. If you are ever in the San Diego area and want to take mine for a spin you are welcome

p.s. Beware - the guy who owns the GTR (with MS on order now) was drooling and stuttering during his testdrive and couldnt stop grinning, I thought he was having a stroke.

I used to live 5 minutes from the Tesla Plant. I'm about 30 minutes away now and have done the factory tour there. Have a couple friends that work there. I know I'm busting your balls here, but I'm a huge fan of the car and really want to get one. I just don't see it as an M3 replacement just as I love some SUV's (Cayenne in particular), but wouldn't buy one to replace it either. I have no doubt that I will grin ear to ear after test driving the performance Model S.

[docbolo]

Lucky you!! I'd love to know some of the amazing people that are building those cars. Sounds like you should reserve a Model X then, would be perfect for you if you're looking for an SUV in the future!