E9x vs Kia stinger

[slowm3]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

What's a better car that has a twin turbo V6, RWD, & 4 door? Don't tell me about reliability. I've had 3 generations of M3s. I love M3s but they are far from being reliable car. BMWs are far from reliable. German cars continue to score the at the very bottom in JD Powers reliability surveys.



Full Disclosure. I work for Kia Motors America as a District Manager.

For me, I would add few extra thousand and I would get the new audi b9 s4 instead of the kia. And again the kia is a different car from the m3 I don't think you can put the two in the same category. As a car enthusiasts I feel the stinger would not give you that driving experience like a m3 would. I'm not sure what your experience was about reliability on M cars, but if you take care of them and service everything on time it will last. I understand your point as well that it's a good car for the price and all but it's more of a 340i or 440i competitor!

[InControl]

Dre,

I'm glad you're a Kia fan but like I said, there's no comparison between a stinger and an M. Even 340i blows it away in every department aside from acceleration and price. Plus can get the BMW with a stick shift. On the other hand, base gt discounted to 35k otd is a great compromised alternartive.

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by InControl

Dre,

I'm glad you're a Kia fan but like I said, there's no comparison between a stinger and an M. Even 340i blows it away in every department aside from acceleration and price. Plus can get the BMW with a stick shift. On the other hand, base gt discounted to 35k otd is a great compromised alternartive.

Blows it away based on what? What component in BMW that's better than one in Kia Stinger. Why is it that we have been rated number#1 in initial quality for the last 2 years. Compare us to the German brands who are at the bottom of that list. Why is it that the Asian brand consistently rate higher in quality than German brands.

Albert Bierman who use to run the "M" division now works for Kia and helped develop the Stinger. I do think that his involvement probably came later in the development process.

[InControl]

Engineering. Look at weight alone. Quality ratings are overrated based on customer satisfaction and are subjective. Had a v6 sonata long ago, the dealership called me all the time for a high rating.

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by InControl

Engineering. Look at weight alone. Quality ratings are overrated based on customer satisfaction and are subjective. Had a v6 sonata long ago, the dealership called me all the time for a high rating.

How is a part failed yes or no subjective. This is not the dealership calling you asking for good survey. This is the JD Power survey that a customer fills out. Again, if there engineering is that great why are they always at the bottom of list regarding quality.

I had an E46 M3. The fact that rear floor pan would just literally tear is unacceptable . I've never driven any vehicle from any other make where the rear floor pan would just fail.

That engineering didn't make a difference when it came to the design of the rod bearings. The same issue happened on the E46 M3 just like the e90x series. They decided to re-engineer the rod bearings on later year e90x series of cars and they still have the same issue. So much for German engineering.

I love my M3 but it's now where close to what I would consider to be reliable. I love the car and can live with that.

[InControl]

You are comparing to performance models. Remember that the n52 engines with moderate power are bullet proof and icons of the generation. When you start adding power via turbo or even na M cars, one starts to approach material and engineering limits. Kia gt is the first higher performance from Hyundai, wait and see issues and recalls soon to make their way. Realize that BMW, SAAB, Audi and MB are the pioneers of turbo and supercharged engines, and the fact that parts break at the limits should be of no surprise to anyone with any engineering knowledge.

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by InControl

You are comparing to performance models. Remember that the n52 engines with moderate power are bullet proof and icons of the generation. When you start adding power via turbo or even na M cars, one starts to approach material and engineering limits. Kia gt is the first higher performance from Hyundai, wait and see issues and recalls soon to make their way. Realize that BMW, SAAB, Audi and MB are the pioneers of turbo and supercharged engines, and the fact that parts break at the limits should be of no surprise to anyone with any engineering knowledge.

Big deal on the N52. I had a Lancer Evolution that made way more power per liter (from the factory) and it was bullet proof. I saw 9000 rpm in that car no problem. I've said this before anyone can make big horse power.

This reminds me of a thread on another BMW forum years ago. Everyone who was an M guy just couldn't imagine that the Nissan GTR would be better than an M3 in terms of performance. Once the car was actually launched crickets. The original GTR is still faster than a F8x M3/M4.

[InControl]

M cars were never about being the fastest. Fun and balanced yes. You can turbo charge a 90's Civic and destroy a gtr.

[baseCPM3]

LMAO at leasing is always better than buying a depreciating asset. Leasing is almost never better than buying. Building some equity is always better than building no equity whatsoever, especially when financing rates through credit unions are so low.

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by baseCPM3

LMAO at leasing is always better than buying a depreciating asset. Leasing is almost never better than buying. Building some equity is always better than building no equity whatsoever, especially when financing rates through credit unions are so low.

Please, Please explain to me how you build equity in an asset that depreciates. You're basically saying i have equity in my 2008 M3 with 87K? That's awesome. I bought it for $23k. It's great to know that I can continue to drive it and put more miles on it and the older it gets the more equity I'll have.

I guess back in 2008 when the economy tanked and housing pricing fell below what people paid (an asset that went down in value). Based on your logic those houses still had equity.

[baseCPM3]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

Please, Please explain to me how you build equity in an asset that depreciates. You're basically saying i have equity in my 2008 M3 with 87K? That's awesome. I bought it for $23k. It's great to know that I can continue to drive it and put more miles on it and the older it gets the more equity I'll have.

I guess back in 2008 when the economy tanked and housing pricing fell below what people paid (an asset that went down in value). Based on your logic those houses still have equity.

Do you plan on giving away your 2008 M3 with 87K miles or do you plan on selling it for money? I'd say that's equity. Now, what are you going to get back when you trade in your lease for the next car? With every lease you throw money out of the window, guaranteed. If you purchase a reliable car, while it does depreciate, you'll still get some of that money back when you sell it, especially one that doesn't depreciate fast.

You really need to calm down man. Reading this thread and the manner in which you respond, I just envision you furiously banging away at your keyboard, checking this thread 24-7 to prove you're right and taking everything personally. It's okay that others have differing opinions and you aren't always correct.

Are there cases where you are right? Sure. Are there cases where you aren't? Sure. It's okay.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by InControl

Realize that BMW, SAAB, Audi and MB are the pioneers of turbo and supercharged engines, and the fact that parts break at the limits should be of no surprise to anyone with any engineering knowledge.

They are not. Nissan and Mitsubishi were the first to introduce seriously quick turbos to the market. F82 M4 uses Mitsubishi turbine, if you didn't know.

As for cross shopping with M3... Kia Stinger is in a difficult position. No coupe model, AWD only for 3.3 V6 which is a HUGE minus to enthusiasts, and no Manual transmission option. Hyundai-Kia decided not to utilize what made Genesis Coupe popular in some parts of America. Engine is very underwhelming in both power and character compared to M engines, so no contest there. In S. Korea however, there is currently no sports sedan with moderate power other than Stinger, so I can see some appeal over base 3 series models.

I personally wouldn't buy it new or used though, it's a well round package but lacks uniqueness.

[BrewRifle]

4 words come to mind "It's a friggen Kia..."

[InControl]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

They are not. Nissan and Mitsubishi were the first to introduce seriously quick turbos to the market. F82 M4 uses Mitsubishi turbine, if you didn't know.

As for cross shopping with M3... Kia Stinger is in a difficult position. No coupe model, AWD only for 3.3 V6 which is a HUGE minus to enthusiasts, and no Manual transmission option. Hyundai-Kia decided not to utilize what made Genesis Coupe popular in some parts of America. Engine is very underwhelming in both power and character compared to M engines, so no contest there. In S. Korea however, there is currently no sports sedan with moderate power other than Stinger, so I can see some appeal over base 3 series models.

I personally wouldn't buy it new or used though, it's a well round package but lacks uniqueness.

I don't recall Mitsubishi doing any early turbo charging. Nissan even less so. See below.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turb...petrol_engines

Saab was the first company to bring turbo to the masses with huge success. They knew what most manufacturers are doing now decades ago across their line up.

Plus you have to be nuts to cross shop stinger with an M

[bkfastwagon]

Regardless of what you think of the Kia brand and its lack of "soul", Stinger is a pretty bold attempt by Kia/Hyundai (they are essentially the same company) and they deserve some credit for that. I really hope that Stinger sells well. If it fails, Kia may abandon sports sedan altogether and develop another friggin pseudo performance SUV/Crossover like every other car company, including BMW, is doing.

[InControl]

I'm for Kia and wish them success. But lets not compare it to what it isn't, a sports sedan.

[GerrS65]

Personally, I wouldn't care if it came stock with 500HP, and ran a 3.7 to 60. I wouldn't buy one because it says KIA on it...

[jaehshim]

I believe even our "old" E9X is much superior to Stinger, for many reasons.

In terms of Brand image, while I am a Hyundai/Kia lover (Korean...lol), the reality of Korean cars is that they are like cellphones (well, all recent cars are like that actually). They got great features, nice looking interior, but just don't last long. In fact, Hyundai/Kia rarely produce parts for 10+yr old models, which is kinda ridiculous. However, it all goes with the cultural style. In Korea, people usually change their cars within 2~3 yrs, they don't hold on to their cars for 5+ yrs...they think 100K Km (62,000 miles) is an "OLD" car and move onto next "NEW" model.


In terms of Kia Stinger itself and recent Hyundai's Sport line models, things will change very soon

All started with Hyundai/Kia's bold move to hire $$ and experienced guys from Germany, first with Peter Schreyer, former Audi Designer. They succeeded with the K5 (Kia Optima), and the overall design is getting better and better.

Then there was the great Albert Biermann (former head of BMW M) moving to Hyundai/Kia group and starting the Hyundai N business and pushing Hyundai into rally game again.

Then just last month another important person Thomas Schemera (former head of BMW M, long partner of Albert Biermann) came to Hyundai/Kia.

I did look at the recent Stinger, i30N and the Veloster N. While they are still far away from the European counterparts, these guys will build something good soon.


Meanwhile...who's the head of BMW M currently? former Quattro guy? No wonder everything is going back to mass produced M stickered "M pack" just like the Audi S-line, awd boring cars....yes these people at the top do make a big difference...I just hope they don't mess up the next M3...

[opihi5]

Kia vs BMW

Case closed.

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by opihi5

Kia vs BMW

Case closed.

Case Closed based on what? BMW is no more reliable than any Kia products. That's proven every year by JD Powers. BMW, Mercedes, & Audi are consistently ranked at the bottom in the car industry when it comes to reliability.

I believe most of us on this forum including myself give BMW a pass because we're fans of the M3. The Rod Bearing issue on the E9x is a big issue. Everyone here get's pissed about it but gives BMW as pass.

Throttle Actuators will fail but again we give BMW a pass.

The rear floor/sub frame on the E46 M3 would just fail. When was the last time anyone drove any vehicle from another manufacturer when the rear subframe literally just failed/tears. Again, we give BMW a pass.

E46 M3 Rod Bearings would fail. Again, BMW get a pass.

Sure, Case Closed

[Dr. Dre]

Car manufacturer's are only required produce parts for cars up to 8 years. No manufacturer is going to produce parts for a 10 year old car.

[Bucki14]

Originally Posted by i_love_cars

I was not talking about leasing or even buying a brand new M3/M4. I said for brand new cars, as a lease comparison, it makes more sense to just get something like a 340.

If you want a brand new car, then your net worth should be enough that it doesn't matter if you buy it. The problem is you're arguing for people having brand new cars beyond their means, which leads people to leasing. And it has unfortunately helped to drive the overall cost of new cars up - manufacturers can do whatever they want with pricing because people are dumb enough to lease cars for ridiculous payments.

It's always more cost effective to just buy a used car outright and repair it over time, until your net worth and actual wealth can afford you the ability to buy a brand new nice car without caring about depreciation.

Delayed gratification could go a long ways.

You know literally nothing about how to properly own/buy a vehicle other than to throw people (your average Kia customer) hurdling into financial oblivion and permanent middle-class fuckery with perpetual lease payments.

I can agree to some of what you have stated... I bought my M3 cash as well as all mods and repairs I have done to date. Buying near the end of the depreciation curve has helped my conscious as well lol. I could have considered buying a new M4 or leasing but I refused to stretch my budget beyond the means I set. Always tempted to get an AMG GT or GT4 but refuse to do so unless a majority of it is bought cash. (living within means argument)

I'm just not prepared for monthly payments on a car just yet... I feel like it will prohibit me from trying to advance myself in the 'social class world' even more so than now