|
|
11-06-2009, 07:55 AM | #684 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
294
Rep 1,709
Posts |
Quote:
The GTS is bad-ass already and it will only continue the get badder once all the specs come out. I can't wait to see some third-party testing and comparisons. -SZ |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 10:27 AM | #686 |
I like cars
329
Rep 5,052
Posts |
Well, it definitely won't make it to the US as a street legal car without a few changes, starting with the seats.
__________________
My photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/racelap/
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 10:31 AM | #687 | |
Lieutenant
19
Rep 500
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Vorsteiner front lip molded and painted no reflectors*type II diffuser*single side CF trunk*Blk grilles*side markers w/ dark tint*40% tint*H&R springs*Macht Schnell spacers*BBS-LM 19"*Eisenmann Racing*Hardwired Escort 9500ci radar/laser system*Brembo 380MM BBK*GIRLS RULE!
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 10:54 AM | #688 | |
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
BMW's experience with the Lightweight in '95 was and is applicable now, as well. They brought them here, we stayed away in droves, and the reasons are pretty straightforward. Namely, we were asked to pay a substantial premium (at first) for a car that was stripped of most amenities. Yes, the car was faster in a straight line and on track, but you paid a price after the sale in the form of a basically uncomfortable car that became a narrow-focus, early-Sunday-morning ride, or a track car. As a track car, it was good, but certainly not awe inspiring. Thus, dismal sales. The market decided that the cars were worth about what a basic M3 cost (track coolness offset by limited practicality), so that's what they ended up selling for. Flash forward to the CSL. This was an even more serious car, priced that way, and damned near useless on the street, unless you happen to live in the Colorado mountains, where moderate temps and low humidity make the car bearable for three-season use. Or, a track car, and as such, even more serious than the lightweight. In addition, because of the significant mods (compared to the Lightweight), the car would have to be re-certified for U.S. use, which is way, way expensive and time consuming. In my opinion, this was the double whammy. A very restricted market and an expensive re-certification process. So BMW (and BMW of America) couldn't make the numbers work. Finito. Now, we have a car that is a heart-attack serious offering, for what will be serious money. OK, what's the market in the U.S.A.? The simple answer is that if they offer it for off-road use only (the easiest and least-expensive way to get it here), then dedicated racers and a few hard-core BMW "gotta-have-it" nuts will want one. Keep in mind that as a race car, it's likely to be non-competitive, although the SCCA can do whatever it wants in terms of classification. In short, an extremely limited market, and not really worth the effort for the U.S., since BMW sells cars here based mostly on the fact that they are luxurious and very capable from behind the wheel. The halo effect from such a car would likely be minimal, from a marketing perspective. Now, what if they were to offer it as a completely certified car for sale here? The basic question would be, who would want one and why? The car will be extremely noisy, rough-riding, and hot (or cold) to drive, with no amenities and an automatic. It will be about Z06 fast, but without the amenities that come standard on that car, not to mention the Vette's high-twenties highway mileage. In short, I see the market as about the same as for a non-certified model. Those in this forum who say they'd buy one - would you really? What would you use it for? Aside from sheer lust (which typically translates to no more than a one-night stand), could you enjoy such a car over the long haul? I personally doubt it. Don't get me wrong. I am very glad BMW is building this car, showing that they can be dead serious, and continuing the M3 model of outperforming its specs, just as the current street offering does. Congrats to them, but don't go bitching about no U.S. offering unless you are willing to throw money instead of clapping. After all, the only reason the watered-down E36 made it here was because of a groundswell of need sent directly to BMW USA and BMW CCA. Speaking of which, I think that bitching to BMW-alphabets will be the only way we'll get a "competition" model here - or at least a more sporty model than we now enjoy. Drop down to yiour dealer and throw some money at him. Write BMW and CCA. Get involved. As many folks know, I personally have problems with the current model mostly because of its size and weight, but if they do something like Porsche with the new Boxster offering, hell, I might be forced into raiding my much-depleted, shadow-of-its-former-self IRA. Who woulda thunk it? Bruce |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 11:28 AM | #689 | |
M-Sport
22
Rep 174
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 11:39 AM | #690 |
Lieutenant General
611
Rep 10,407
Posts |
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK | | Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors | | Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels | | XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit | |
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 12:41 PM | #692 |
I like cars
329
Rep 5,052
Posts |
So Porsche just blew BMW out of the water with the Boxster Roadster for less than half the price and similar performance - with the option of a 6 speed manual or 7 speed PDK, as well as the option of carbon ceramic brakes. And it's coming to the USA with a base price of only $61k.
Take notes, BMW. Porsche just showed you how a proper lightweight is done.
__________________
My photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/racelap/
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 12:53 PM | #693 | |
Second Lieutenant
39
Rep 259
Posts
Drives: BMW M3 E92 DCT AW/PS
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Between Autobahn country & Swiss chocolates
|
No offense meant but...
Hi Bruce
just wanted to make a couple comments to state the nature of this or any Sport car Quote:
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 01:01 PM | #694 | |
Second Lieutenant
39
Rep 259
Posts
Drives: BMW M3 E92 DCT AW/PS
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Between Autobahn country & Swiss chocolates
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 01:04 PM | #695 |
Moderator / European Editor
1512
Rep 6,754
Posts |
Remember this car will be available from May 2010 on, so likely there won't be a GTS without the LCI 'treatment'.
Best regards, south
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 01:26 PM | #696 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
294
Rep 1,709
Posts |
Quote:
-SZ |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 02:16 PM | #697 |
Major General
1109
Rep 8,014
Posts |
Bruce,
As always you have a wonderful way of cutting through the BS and saying it as it is. Chris, I think you are wrong that it would fly off the showroom floor, especially if 99% of the comments from members on this forum are true. The reason I say this is the constant referring the other competitors brands being way over priced compared to BMW equivalents. What I get from those comments is that if BMW were the dearest then quite a few wouldn't be driving a Beemer, so chances are that if the GTS came to the States it would only sell in the very limited numbers that the rest of the world will buy, maybe less with the US economy being in an even worth state. I believe BMW know their products better than anyone else. |
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 02:29 PM | #698 |
Moderator
673
Rep 4,737
Posts |
following up on the Boxster Spyder...
For all the automotive experts here: why is Porsche able to so "easily" bring all these special edition models to the US? For example the new 2800 lb Spyder with aluminum doors, altered suspension, lighter wheels, PCCB, higher output and bucket seats. Does the Spyder need to be recertified/tested (i.e. crash testings, emissions testing...)? At what point does a new version of a car need to be completely re-evaluated (how much modding can a manufacturer do)? |
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 02:55 PM | #699 | |
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
I personally have complete faith in the on-track abilities of the current M3 (except perhaps for the brakes), but that's not my issue. On the street, my feeling about the car is that it's less tossable than the E46 that graced our garage, which in turn was less tossable than the E36 that graced our garage. It's arguably a terrific car, but to me, it just feels big and heavy - and less tossable than the 128 I drove after sampling the M3 for the first time, or even the 135 I drove after sampling the M3 for the second time. It's a better car than the E46, but for me it's less fun to drive, as was the E46 compared to the E36. I have little doubt that I'd feel the same way about our E36 if I had driven the E30 model first. I firmly believe that the current model is by far the quickest one around any track, but since I've quit instructing or even doing track days, that's of little consequence to me. In my personal opinion, smaller and lighter is always more fun than bigger and heavier, no matter the lap times. My favorite track car ever was my '98 ACR Neon, ferchrissake. Of course it was a piece of crap, but on track, an absolute killer. Not saying anybody else should feel the way I do - especially since I don't give a damn about my "image", and I know that's important to most. Image: Neon: Low-rent trailer-park car (since nobody has a clue about how serious ACR cars were and are). M3: Somewhat apropos of Jeremy Clarkson, what happens when an M3 driver takes Viagra? He gets taller. OK, OK, I heard that as both a lawyer joke and a Porsche driver joke, so use it any way you like. Damned funny, though. Bruce |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 03:02 PM | #700 |
Lieutenant Colonel
67
Rep 1,895
Posts |
Just because it's expected to be listed @ 119K euro in Germany, don't think it's gonna be near that in USD. I saw a 2010 E92 on the showroom for 92K Euro along with a 2009 AW special edition marked down from 119K euro to 92k Euro. I maybe wrong but I'm thinking if this comes to the States, this is gonna go for somewhere around the high $70's to low $80's MSRP.
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 03:14 PM | #701 |
Major
27
Rep 1,314
Posts |
Great White, perhaps I missed it, but no where have I seen BMW say they would "introduce it in the US and other markets starting in 2010." I saw them say "introduce it in other markets starting in 2010."
Bruce, great post! I couldn't agree more. I honestly don't think there is a US market even at a $100K price point, when you can get same or better performance with comfort features, for $70K, and under (e.g. C6 Z06).
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 04:18 PM | #702 | |
Colonel
99
Rep 2,000
Posts |
Quote:
Bruce |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 04:27 PM | #703 |
Moderator
7512
Rep 19,368
Posts |
Yeah foosh, I agree. As soon as you remove the back seat the M3 no longer holds any practical advantage over a proper two-seat sports car. Removing the back seat shaves weight - no doubt about that. But what shaves even more weight is starting with a clean sheet design that never had to accommodate a backseat to begin with.
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-06-2009, 05:05 PM | #704 | |
I like cars
329
Rep 5,052
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
My photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/racelap/
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|