EVO - Greatest ever ///M-Car

[MI6]

Originally Posted by rvacha

I take it you've owned one and know? What did you replace it with? I think the migration path of car ownership tells you as much about what you value as much as the actual cars you've owned.

Oh wait, now I know the reason for your defensiveness. I called you out when I mentioned Melbourne Red was BMW's first attempt at a Metallic BRIGHT Red and you mentioned Electric Red was and I later proved that Electric was non-metallic. I must've struck a sore spot.

Normally I would not respond to this crap but insinuating something about my car ownership and what my values are when I was asking another poster a simple question says a lot more about you than it does me...........

Oh and by the way, the E39 M5 was the first "M" car I fell totally in love with so ditch the defensive attitude.......

[JEllis]

I am just surprised that the E28 M5 or E34 M5 didnt make the top three. Both were awesome cars in there day and to me exemplafied M far more than the E39 did. Nothing against the E39M, I would love to own one. But, the small nimble E28 M5 comes off as more of drivers car to me. I have driven a E28 before and it was a great car, even with 200K on the ODO. I cant even imagine how great an E28 M is or was back in the day.

Jason

[rvacha]

Originally Posted by MI6

Oh wait, now I know the reason for your defensiveness. I called you out when I mentioned Melbourne Red was BMW's first attempt at a Metallic BRIGHT Red and you mentioned Electric Red was and I later proved that Electric was non-metallic. I must've struck a sore spot.

Normally I would not respond to this crap but insinuating something about my car ownership and what my values are when I was asking another poster a simple question says a lot more about you than it does me...........

Oh and by the way, the E39 M5 was the first "M" car I fell totally in love with so ditch the defensive attitude.......

Regarding Electric Red, I missed your post. That simple. And what I saw WAS metallic AND the color info badge also claimed it to be Electric Red, but the car may have been repainted - for this I am sorry. I apologize to both you and the rest of the board for misleading/inaccurate info. However, my "called you out" was accurate - there are indeed many colors that BMW classifies as metallic red. It was AFTER I posted that you added the caveat "BRIGHT". If your original post - the one I responded to - had said "bright" I probably would not have responded. "Bright" is rather subjective anyway, in much the same way that "red" is subjective. For a large but incomplete list see BMW Color Codes

Regarding the E39, you said "it's obvious someone on EVO has a soft spot for the E39". The way I read this was that you thought there had to be a less than rational reason for the E39 to have made the list, i.e. that was the only way it could have made the list. I would have asked the question "so what aspects of the E39 M5 rated so high with the reviewers?" In my mind this is a way different question than you asked. I am sorry I misinterpreted your comment.

Not sure what loving a car has to do with owning one though

[esquire]

The problem with this article is that there are so many standards by which the "Greatest M of all time" could be judged

1) Most Motorsport oriented
2) most relevant/impactful to the car segment of the time
3) best performance in the segment for which it was designed
4) best performance relative to other cars in existence at the time
5) best performance as compared to cars today
6) ad infinitum.....

Now granted i haven't read the article, and perhaps it announces the specific criteria by which they've adjudged "best M of all time" ... but the top 3 as they've announced them is almost non-sensical to me. For three cars as vastly different as those to make top 3, it's clear that there was no overarching criterion by which these cars were ranked. One is an innovative car for its time but by today's standards an underperformer (E30 M3), the other is a purist performance approach elevated to the level impracticality (e46 M3 CSL), and the last (e36 M5) is an exercise in practicality if ever there was one. i'm disappointed by the proposition for which this article stands.

i would have instead preferred to see a top 3 with more cohesion.

- esquire

[ILC32]

Originally Posted by esquire

The problem with this article is that there are so many standards by which the "Greatest M of all time" could be judged

1) Most Motorsport oriented
2) most relevant/impactful to the car segment of the time
3) best performance in the segment for which it was designed
4) best performance relative to other cars in existence at the time
5) best performance as compared to cars today
6) ad infinitum.....

Now granted i haven't read the article, and perhaps it announces the specific criteria by which they've adjudged "best M of all time" ... but the top 3 as they've announced them is almost non-sensical to me. For three cars as vastly different as those to make top 3, it's clear that there was no overarching criterion by which these cars were ranked. One is an innovative car for its time but by today's standards an underperformer (E30 M3), the other is a purist performance approach elevated to the level impracticality (e46 M3 CSL), and the last (e36 M5) is an exercise in practicality if ever there was one. i'm disappointed by the proposition for which this article stands.

i would have instead preferred to see a top 3 with more cohesion.

- esquire

Agree 100%. Good post.

[bugzy]

http://www.lonandclaire.com/misc/evo.pdf

PDF file

[bugzy]

Originally Posted by ruff

Good post. E39 M5 is a great car and can still hold it's own against any competition. It remains the best allround car BMW ever produced. IMO, The E60 version is a huge step towards AMG and away from it's own heritage. My reference to technological pig was my way of saying I am unhappy about it's mass and it's electronic and software excess.

The E30 M3 is truly an amazing vehicle, even a car thats 20+ years old, can keep up against most modern vehicles around a track, maybe not in a straightline

The E39 M5 is amazing. Being an answer, its a 9 year old car that has been held in high praise since it came out. The E55 and the Audi's all stride to surpass, even a generation after. During its time, it was king, extending into the next generation of cars.

The E60 M5 is nice, but is not great. The E55 or E63 can take it in straightlines. And even in handling, its very nice, but only marginal against maybe vehicles.

The E9x M3's are great, but lets be honest, they are lossing it a lil bit to the luxury part of the brand. Becoming less of a enthusiasts drivers car.

I think the new M3's are however the best of the last generation of BMW cars including the E6x M5/M6's.

If I wanted to replace my E39 M5, only BMW I would consider is a 4dr E90 M3. Otherwise, I'd jump ship back to Audi.

[skim]

Originally Posted by 888

BMW has stated that no EDC and 18” is the purist option.

Did they say anything about transmission choice?
I'd be curious what their take on this is..

[Jack28]

Humm Interesting Read!!!

Hope one day this is How My Garage will look like! lol....
Man you Gotta Love the Evo M3 and the CSL M3! They Look Incredible!
Man I just Hope BMW Brings back the CSL on the E9x M3...

[monsta]

good bump, I remember reading this thread 2 yrs ago when the wait was killing me thankfully now I get to my wish list of ///m are definitely the e30, e46 csl & e39 but I wouldn't give up my e92 these would be just in addition

[bmwrjs]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Sounds like a good article. The E30 M3 I think was going to be the clear winner. The E30 M3 shold win considering that it was the car that started mass production of M cars and even in its road form was still very close to the race versions.

However, I am little surprsied the E39 M3 made 3rd and I downright shocked the M1 even made it into the top 5.

I read one article where the journalist actually drove his E39 M5 to the review and found the E92 M3 was everything the E39 M was, with a V8 and loads of power, except without the heavy feeling and lack of crispness.

The M1 is very shocking for multiple reasons. The first and biggest for me being that the car is more Lambo and Lotus than BMW. In fact the chasis was even built by Lambo for several years. Maybe the article brings this up but I personally have never considered the M1 to be a great example of BMW engineering since there is very little BMW in the car.

Jason

Can you get an M3 CSL without SMGII?

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by Smoltz

Given that the CSL came in so far ahead of the E46 M3 CS, I can't help but think that an E92 with some mods is going to be a killer car.

-Adam

The E92 M3 GTS (with all its extra engine displacement, power, fixed brakes, and extensive weight reduction) is only 10 sec. faster around the ring than the E46 M3 CSL. For a car (GTS) this expensive and with so much more technology available, that is nothing close to progress. I wouldn't expect a E92 M3 CSL to best the E46 M3 CSL.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by rvacha

Correct me if I'm wrong but active shocks/dampers/suspension were used until catastrophic failures killed Aryton Senna (and others I don't recall - not a huge fan). Surely they saw an advantage?

Low tire pressures killed Senna. Driving a few laps behind a safety car dropped the tire pressures significantly and lowered the car unto the plank and the car skated off the road while bottoming out during a high speed corner.