Dealer denies warranty claim for differential bolt failure - $6100 bill

[SamS]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

These threads always bring out people who just want to argue with you because they enjoy being contrary.

No. I think threads like this provide for a more objective viewpoint, one that you should really consider.

The two parties with direct involvement (you, and your dealer) both have financial interests at stake, which can potential cloud objective judgement. I have no financial stake in your situation, and can only analyze the facts as you present them. I (as well as others) came to the analysis that the dealer has a strong case to support their denial. Regardless if that's "right" or "wrong". It is the objective conclusion. Not arguing.

[Munit]

The crazy and scary part of this scenario is if you go to the dealer and complain of a "clunking" in the rear end, they tell you thats completely normal, which it actually usually is with the last m3 and this one. But really seems tough if they are calling clunking normal when this may be and obviously was the sign of a failing part.

Not sure why they don't error on the side of fixing it and keeping a customer. They make much more than 6k off of a customer for even 1 car purchase. Sometimes the lack of business understanding is pitiful.

[m3an]

Originally Posted by Munit

The crazy and scary part of this scenario is if you go to the dealer and complain of a "clunking" in the rear end, they tell you thats completely normal, which it actually usually is with the last m3 and this one. But really seems tough if they are calling clunking normal when this may be and obviously was the sign of a failing part.

Not sure why they don't error on the side of fixing it and keeping a customer. They make much more than 6k off of a customer for even 1 car purchase. Sometimes the lack of business understanding is pitiful.

clunking is very normal; driveline lash is needed, and the m-clunk has absolutley nothing to do w/ this

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by SamS

No. I think threads like this provide for a more objective viewpoint, one that you should really consider.

The two parties with direct involvement (you, and your dealer) both have financial interests at stake, which can potential cloud objective judgement. I have no financial stake in your situation, and can only analyze the facts as you present them. I (as well as others) came to the analysis that the dealer has a strong case to support their denial. Regardless if that's "right" or "wrong". It is the objective conclusion. Not arguing.

But your conclusion that I hit "something" (post #33) was based off of relative statements that aren't actually relevant after simple analysis (post #69). I don't.. understand how that's a "strong case" when it wouldn't even be credible enough to make it past discovery. That's why I assumed you were just being contrary.

Originally Posted by m3an

clunking is very normal; driveline lash is needed, and the m-clunk has absolutley nothing to do w/ this

There's the problem.. clunking from the driveline is normal in the E9X but sounds very different than the E46 M3 clunk. The sound I was hearing and I believe others reported hearing before diff. bolt failure sounded like the E46 M3 clunk. People keep saying "clunking is normal" but they are two very different sounds obviously with different outcomes.

[m3an]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

But your conclusion that I hit "something" (post #33) was based off of relative statements that aren't actually relevant after simple analysis (post #69). I don't.. understand how that's a "strong case" when it wouldn't even be credible enough to make it past discovery.

Must.. get.. work.. done.

again, good luck, but I really value my time and it costs me a lot of money so I would just fix it first; that being said, if just the bolt sheared off this is relatively a cheap fix. Put a new bolt in and make sure there is no other damage and be on the way, or if the dealer is adamant that something was hit, then report it to your insurance company. It shouldn't be a collision claim, moreso comp, but I am not getting into the whole comp versus coll thing here. But this is why you have insurance. Either way, again, good luck, but you're fighting City Hall.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

But your conclusion that I hit "something" (post #33) was based off of relative statements that aren't actually relevant after simple analysis (post #69).

Again, you did hit something. You call it a pebble, but you really don't know. You say anything strong enough to sheer a diff bolt would cause more damage than the (minor, I'll admit) documented damage to your car. Unless you're going to get a paid expert engineer on a witness stand, this is just your word, vs. theirs.

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

I don't.. understand how that's a "strong case" when it wouldn't even be credible enough to make it past discovery.

I never said the damage to your car was a "strong case" for an association, enough to deny your claim. Just that it is indeed an association.

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by Pontrelli

I love how this now turned into a BMW vs Customer thread..the pictures that are posted are spotty at best..BMW has every right to deny claims due to abuse and road hazzard..this saves us ALL money in the long run..If OP is in the right he will be cleared and have his repair covered..end of story

Well thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Good karma to you. Hope you never have to use that extended warranty of yours.

Maybe some of you have forgotten your history. This was the kind of response E46 M3 owners got for years on subframe claims. BMW did everything they could to deny claims and now some people want to act like BMW is always right. Luckily some people stood up for themselves.

[m3an]

Originally Posted by SamS

Again, you did hit something. You call it a pebble, but you really don't know. You say anything strong enough to sheer a diff bolt would cause more damage than the (minor, I'll admit) documented damage to your car. Unless you're going to get a paid expert engineer on a witness stand, this is just your word, vs. theirs.



I never said the damage to your car was a "strong case" for an association, enough to deny your claim. Just that it is indeed an association.

exactly; and I do expert witness auto work, so I am speaking from experience. And I would also bill you more than it would cost to have it repaired; Somethings are just not worth the headache.

OP can't prove anyhting, but neither can BMW> That said, they as a biz owner should repair the car to keep a customer, but alas no one gives a shit nowawadys.

But the important thing to note is that the OP can't prove anyhting so the dealer can say pound sand. the only hope here is that the OP is annoying to the point the dealer just fixes the car to get rid of him
OP may have better luck parking the car on the street near dealer broken w/ sign on it bad mouthing them.

[m3an]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

Well thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Good karma to you. Hope you never have to use that extended warranty of yours.

Maybe some of you have forgotten your history. This was the kind of response E46 M3 owners got for years on subframe claims. Luckily some people thought they were in the right and acted on it.

this is nothing like the subframe recall issued to the e46 chassis, nothing..


Should these bolts break, def not, but apparently not that many of them have had issues to warrant a recall. Keep in mind the subframe issue is to all e46 cars, not just m3. While you read of probs on this forum this represnets a very small scale of ownership population

[SamS]

Originally Posted by m3an

OP may have better luck parking the car on the street near dealer broken w/ sign on it bad mouthing them.

Are you kidding? He should definitely smash the windows, spray paint it, and leave it outside his dealer, for dead.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=777392

[m3an]

Originally Posted by SamS

Are you kidding? He should definitely smash the windows, spray paint it, and leave it outside his dealer, for dead.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=777392

Wow! Some people are extreme

[bvanderbilt]

Originally Posted by m3an

this is nothing like the subframe recall issued to the e46 chassis, nothing..


Should these bolts break, def not, but apparently not that many of them have had issues to warrant a recall. Keep in mind the subframe issue is to all e46 cars, not just m3. While you read of probs on this forum this represnets a very small scale of ownership population

It was not a direct comparison; the analogy is in the following proposed commonality: BMW for years denied a known problem experienced by multiple customers and falsely denied warranty claims on basis of abuse and accident damage.

The takeaway is that BMW is known to deny claims for known warranty issues. Some people want to come in the thread and say "BMW is right, why would they say it was accident damage, if it wasn't?" Well, look at the past.

[m3an]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

It was not a direct comparison; the analogy is in the following proposed commonality: BMW for years denied a known problem experienced by multiple customers and falsely denied warranty claims on basis of abuse and accident damage.

The takeaway is that BMW is known to deny claims for known warranty issues. Some people want to come in the thread and say "BMW is right, why would they say it was accident damage, if it wasn't?" Well, look at the past.

Welcome to Life, it's not just BMW, every car company (as well as other products) try and limit their liability and deny claims. Point is, you have to prove otherwise, which is going to be very difficult. Honestly, I would laugh if you came into my office presenting a mathematical equation to justify the bolt shearing. There's just wayyyyyy too many variables involved when you're driving down the street. But more power to you.

[m3an]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

It was not a direct comparison; the analogy is in the following proposed commonality: BMW for years denied a known problem experienced by multiple customers and falsely denied warranty claims on basis of abuse and accident damage.

The takeaway is that BMW is known to deny claims for known warranty issues. Some people want to come in the thread and say "BMW is right, why would they say it was accident damage, if it wasn't?" Well, look at the past.

while in theory this sounds ok, remember past performance is never an indicator of future results.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by bvanderbilt

BMW for years denied a known problem experienced by multiple customers and falsely denied warranty claims on basis of abuse and accident damage.

And how many warranty claims are denied every single business day by BMW NA, due to real accident damage or abuse?

[m3an]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

That's insane! And yet very awesome!

yeah, I could imagine for something more serious, but for a rusted seat frame? I can't imagine this guy getting served the wrong food order!!!

[Gfunk720]

Originally Posted by MelvinMrBMWBey

It sounds like your personal feelings about sales people are the reason your choosing to to insult me...lol I did not respond to this to insult the guy. Logical people are able to understand that everything that happens to them is not someone elses fault all the time. BMW are machines and they break like every other machine in the world. Why else would thier be a service department right next the sales department at every auto retailer on the planet? Going though all the aggrevation of trying to "fight it" calling BMW NA calling the BBB is probably not worth it. If he likes the car and see's a value in it just get it fix and move on with life, thats all I am saying. People that work at dealers arent alway "out to get you" they have a job to do the same way you do, and it sounds like the SA was just doing his and it caused the guy to go off the deep end and question the ethics of the dealer he choose to go to.

How do you get any sort of notion that I have something against sales people? Nothing I said mentions anything about them, or my feelings towards them.

Logical people understand cause and effect. Your "logic" that things break, and BMW can't be held responsible is beyond stupid. It's why they offer warrantees. You stand behind your product and if it fails you do what it takes to make it right for a repeat customer that owns one of your flagship vehicles. Maybe that's not how things go at your dealership.

We have yet to see any indication that there was any sort of impact to the differential that would cause a bolt(that is made out of substantially harder metal than the diff itself) to fail. One would think if there was an impact that put several thousand of force on a specific component, that there would be more evidence than some light scratching. Especially considering this is a known issue with these cars, to deny it and try to blame the customer is down right shameful.

I agree with the OP that it is utterly ridiculous and unprofessional of you to come on here and essentially call the OP a liar and tell him to buck up and eat it.

[m3an]

Originally Posted by Gfunk720

How do you get any sort of notion that I have something against sales people? Nothing I said mentions anything about them, or my feelings towards them.

Logical people understand cause and effect. Your "logic" that things break, and BMW can't be held responsible is beyond stupid. It's why they offer warrantees. You stand behind your product and if it fails you do what it takes to make it right for a repeat customer that owns one of your flagship vehicles. Maybe that's not how things go at your dealership.

We have yet to see any indication that there was any sort of impact to the differential that would cause a bolt(that is made out of substantially harder metal than the diff itself) to fail. One would think if there was an impact that put several thousand of force on a specific component, that there would be more evidence than some light scratching. Especially considering this is a known issue with these cars, to deny it and try to blame the customer is down right shameful.

I agree with the OP that it is utterly ridiculous and unprofessional of you to come on here and essentially call the OP a liar and tell him to buck up and eat it.

you sound like you live in a fantasy land.

[Gfunk720]

Originally Posted by m3an

you sound like you live in a fantasy land.

Sorry, are you delusional?

You own a car that is under warrantee. A basic part fails that is known to fail on other vehicles of the same make and model. Your warrantee repair is denied despite no reasonable explination, and you are expected to pick up a $6k repair bill. What is reasonable about that?

While I'm not prentending to have all of the factual information to rule on such an issue, I have plenty of customer service experience. What are the chances the OP will continue to purchase more BMW products after such an experience?

[TVMA Doc]

Wow, I'm glad that I went with Geico's mechanical breakdown insurance. You must purchase in the first 15 months/15k miles to extend the warranty to 7 years/100k miles. I felt a little bit like I was getting ripped off a bit having "double coverage" for those first 4 years/50k, but after hearing so many people having BMW reneg on their warranty, I can't help but think that I'm lucky to have a second warranty that reportely NEVER tries to get out of the repairs.

I hope that you can get some assistance on this issue. Even with a minor impact (scratched gas tank yet the diff bolt sheared??), it sounds like a normal type of road use. You weren't autocrossing/off roading with it, right?

ANY vehicle should stand up to normal use, even the occasional cardboard box on the freeway. If it's not substantial enough to rip off your front bumper, etc., on the way in then it shouldn't be substantial enough to rip off your differential.

[gatorfast]

Even if OP did run over something it seems very unlikely the differential bolt would break. Surely that part of the car is strong enough to withstand the occasional road debris and if it was a boulder or something then there would likely be much more damage, no?

I don't think anyone in their right mind would blindly accept a $6k repair bill for something that seems like a mechanical failure.

[MelvinMrBMWBey]

Bvanderbuilt, I am not hiding or attempting to insult you. It sounds like you hit something that's all. I did take the time to google you or send any emails about you or anything of the sort. Based on what you wrote it sounds to me meaning in my opinion that you hit something. Maybe you didnt hit it that day, maybe you did I dont know. People are entitled to thier opinions and my opinion is that it sounds like you hit something. Thats all I have to say about it. Yes I do work at a BMW store you can check out my rating, I am Certified and have a 99% percent customer satisfaction rating at BMW as well as dealerrater.com. I take care of my customers and when they need to hear the truth I just give it, because thats all they really pay me for. The truth. Hope you get it fixed under warranty some how just like I said before.