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12-30-2010, 01:50 PM | #265 | |||
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Last but not least do keep in mind how many folks have complained about the lack of torque in the current M3! That complaint, although not typically phrased in the correct fashion, has some merit. I call it the lazy drivers desire... It will certainly be very well addressed in the next generation car.
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12-30-2010, 01:53 PM | #266 | ||
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12-30-2010, 05:28 PM | #267 | |
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Its the philosophy they are abandoning, and that is what I have an issue with. The the 10th time, the engine might be a great engine, but great is not special, there is a difference. Cheers, e46e92
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12-30-2010, 05:47 PM | #268 |
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Marketing does not understand
that the attributes that make it such a desireable car, need to stay if you want to keep your desireablility.
The opinions of the purists, enthusiasts and the motor-heads are what leads the mass market to desire the vehicle. I foresee that my next vehicle will be all-electric, just an appliance for commuting. I will save a lot of money and push my other hobbies harder. |
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12-30-2010, 06:23 PM | #270 |
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Maybe but why is that? Market conditions? Competition? E9x doesn't perform well vs previous gen?
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12-30-2010, 06:49 PM | #271 | |
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Doesn't take anything away from the E9x however as comparison tests have shown it to remain the segment standard.
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12-31-2010, 12:03 AM | #272 |
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One thing I have great hopes for is the next M3 being lighter yet stronger than ever before. BMW investing in the CF plant making CF reinforced plastic and trying to make the process cheaper and simpler puts a smile to my face. Maybe in 3-4 years time, when the next F3x M3 is here, we'll get body parts that are CF reinforced plastic while the main structure is aluminum.
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12-31-2010, 12:17 AM | #273 |
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This is great info but for ONCE...for ONCE I would love for BMW to make the M3 be the FIRST with the most HP and torque in its class and stop playing second fiddle to Mercedes.
Know what I mean? These numbers are numbers Mercedes was posting 3 YEARS AGO. Come on M group...take the damn lead in this area for once.
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12-31-2010, 01:30 AM | #274 | |
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I think CF is most likely for things like hoods and trunks where it is a bit more than just a cosmetic "cover" like a fender - these parts move (hinge) and need some more structural strength and rigidity. CF in the chassis is a much more complex and long term endeavor (and cost prohibitive as well).
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12-31-2010, 01:41 AM | #275 | |
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Also, as I have argued, calling the engine identical when it shares a block and perhaps many internals is neither fair nor accurate. The engine system will be quite different and certainly radically different from an experience perspective than the base 3er or X3. I have no doubts that it will be much more able to cope with track abuse on the engine level (well again engine SYSTEM level to be precise) as compared to the base car or existing 335i. There is also good indication of a redline in the range of 7200-7500, which is reduced but certainly not low revving. NA itself is not and has never been an M philosophy. Perhaps it's been the status quo but definitely not something as rigid as a "philosophy". As far as I am aware there is no official philosophy of M. Granted they have spoken at length about the importance of throttle response and the race car/motorsport experience for its M cars. We have no reason to believe that these features of the next car will not be excellent. Can it match the S65 specifically for the throttle response and redline, probably not, will it be darn close - probably. That is not really what defines an M. Maybe it's your definition but it is not THE definition. The core important tenet of BMW M (IMHO) is to offer race inspired coupes and sedans that lead the competitive field in all around performance, with an emphasis on handling, track performance and the fun to drive factor. At the same time keeping ahead in the price to performance ratio, wrapping it all up in a classy European package.
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12-31-2010, 08:54 AM | #276 | |
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As one thread just started by a member of these forums states it best, people are more concerned with whether their car has Active Cruise Control and as one guy already stated in this thread, whether it has the most hp & tq in its class, rather than the overall experience, performance and soul of the car. Basically, the majority of the people buying these cars don't know of its heritage and tradition, nor have any other clue about the car other than "I got an ///M3". So with that being said, I guess BMW is doing the right thing, and the only thing left for enthusiasts to do is shut up, keep their old cars and pray they last forever. Cheers, e46e92 Cheers, e46e92
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12-31-2010, 09:04 AM | #277 |
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When I saw that thread I just SHOOK MY HEAD. I would never want active cruise control... these cars are meant to be driven!!! SMH!!!
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12-31-2010, 10:20 AM | #278 | ||
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Swamp, yes, NA has never been advertised as M Philosophy per se. OTOH, neither has 100bhp/liter. Both aspects greatly lend themselves to promoting the notion that a given motor is special; race car special. However, in practice, M Division has made NA a constant to its motor building program, and if that's all there has been to date for the M3, it makes it a little difficult to attempt to argue that NA has never been part of M Philosophy in practice. For M Philosophy see below Quote:
M Philosophy defined (See starting @ 16s)..."M Philosophy is to basically take a production car with all the utility, amenities of a production car, and add to this the performance of a real sports car; almost a race car." From the same video starting at 5:08 on what M Division wants to deliver to the M driver...and how to bore M drivers...which is where some of us are coming from since everyone else (i.e. the competition) is already doing what M now appears to be prepared to do (i.e. turbocharge ).
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12-31-2010, 11:54 AM | #279 | |
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Hate to be grammar police, but I think you mean TENET, not TENANT. No one's living over at or renting an apartment from M Division. |
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12-31-2010, 12:27 PM | #280 | ||||||
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1550 kg (EU) M3 F32 with 450 HP = VERY NICE 1550 kg (EU) M3 F32 with 500 HP = EVEN BETTER Quote:
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BMW M will do everything to make the M3 F32 desirable: -RS5 details, seats, beauty -C AMG aggressivity -M5 comfort -911 price But in the end, it will lack one vital thing: a TRUE Motorpsorts engine. Quote:
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The rumoured M3 F32 with FI I6 is a car that would not continue the legend of the M3. It would start a new legend, a very short one. An example that the M3 should follow (to some extend): Ferrari 360 Modena (NA 3.6l V8) Ferrari F430 (NA 4.3 V8) Ferrari 458 Italia (NA 4.5l V8) (no manual ) Going from NA 4.0l V8, 8.400 rpm redline to FI 3.0l/3.5l I6, 7.000 rpm redline is not continuing the legend. Continuing the legend would be a NA 4.5l V8, 9.000 rpm redline. Actually for what reason should the M3 get a FI I6 over a NA V8? V8 is shorter, more compact, lighter, no heat issues. Emissions? Direct injection like the last Ferrari. An other problem it that the M3 engine will not be special, as put into cars as X3 M. BMW M can do what it wishes, but let it leave the M3 in peace. |
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12-31-2010, 01:47 PM | #282 |
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All things are subject to interpretation; whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
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12-31-2010, 02:01 PM | #283 | |
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01-01-2011, 12:36 AM | #285 | |
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Cheers, e46e92
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01-01-2011, 11:22 AM | #286 |
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1st January: Levi dreaming...
BMW M3
Chassis: F32 Engine: S66 Configuration: 4.5l V8 Power: 500 PS (111 PS/l) Torque: 475 Nm (105 Nm/l) Redline: 9.000 RPM Gearbox: GS6 [GS7] (+ 20 kg) Weight: 1550 kg (EU) 0-100 km/h: 4.2 [4.0] sec V-max: 300 km/h N-Ring: 7:45 min (DCT) Price: 75.000 € BMW M3 CSL Chassis: F32 Engine: S66 Configuration: 4.5l V8 Power: 525 PS (116 PS/l) Torque: 500 Nm (111 Nm/l) Redline: 9.000 RPM Gearbox: GS6 [GS7] (+ 20 kg) Weight: 1450kg (EU) 0-100 km/h: 4.0 [3.8] sec V-max: 320 km/h N-Ring: 7:25 min (DCT) Price: 105.000 € Last edited by BMW269; 01-01-2011 at 11:41 AM.. |
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