Had a good experience with e85 today

[VCMpower]

Well there you go, I am unrealistic and out of context with my simple statement. Very good.

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=14



Please stay in the context of what we're talking about, which is adding a couple gallons of E85 in the fuel tank. What type of fuel is readily available to the general public that has *that* high of an octane rating that can cause power loss? People on this forum run 50/50 race gas/pump gas mixtures in their cars, and I know I've seen posts where people have run straight race gas . Given that, I'd be hard pressed to believe that someone will have too much octane when mixing 1-2 gals of E85 w/14-15 gallons of premium unleaded.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by VCMpower

Well there you go, I am unrealistic and out of context with my simple statement. Very good.

I guess your saying, "hey, too much octane and you'll lose power" is just about as generic as my saying, "hey, increasing the octane rating will increase power", so I guess we both need to clarify, so I'll go first:

Given readily available fuel types/additives we can put in our E9Xs, you can increase hp by increasing the octane rating.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by s65e90

if you have bigger injectors than stock and a large pump, forget a mix. If e85 is readily available to you I would def try a tune out on some e85. The car would absolutley make some power. It's not as benficial just runinng it though and I don't know why the others in this thread think otherwise.

Its characterisitics are not like gasoline and the car needs to be tuned to run e85.

Will probably try full E85 sometime in the future.

[sales@ESSTuning]

Originally Posted by Skooterbrah

Bump for Roman. Would be curious if I could splash some E85 in my tank with my piss water 91 octane up here.

We do not suggest running E85 with our supercharger kits. The stock fuel system is not designed to run E85 properly. Your best bet if you want to run higher quality fuel is to add 2-3 gallons of 100 octane to the tank.

[s65e90]

Originally Posted by Roman@ESS

We do not suggest running E85 with our supercharger kits. The stock fuel system is not designed to run E85 properly. Your best bet if you want to run higher quality fuel is to add 2-3 gallons of 100 octane to the tank.

yes but by saying that you're a little vague and people may think it has do do w/ corrosion when the issue w/ running e85 on a stock fuel system is the stock fuel system not being able to flow enough volume.


to run e85 safely the car only needs a bigger pump and injectors. The rails themselves and line should be more than adequate.

If you wanna get really harcore then I would also suggest running -10 from the tank to the rails.

[s65e90]

Originally Posted by Roman@ESS

We do not suggest running E85 with our supercharger kits. The stock fuel system is not designed to run E85 properly. Your best bet if you want to run higher quality fuel is to add 2-3 gallons of 100 octane to the tank.

and for most people I would agree on running some race gas added to pump rather than fool around with e85.

Esp if its' a blower car

[VCMpower]

I have tried many different combos. I have seen huge drops in power going too high octane. The way I see it is, if you are hitting your max targets(ign ect.) with 94 octane and a tune for 94 octane then 98 octane does not increase power. It is a far less violent combustion the higher you go. Light bulb is brightest before burning out theory. As long as you are not relying on your knock sensors your octane is suffice. Is this correct?

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

I guess your saying, "hey, too much octane and you'll lose power" is just about as generic as my saying, "hey, increasing the octane rating will increase power", so I guess we both need to clarify, so I'll go first:

Given readily available fuel types/additives we can put in our E9Xs, you can increase hp by increasing the octane rating.

[SYZ]

lol at folks worried about splashing in a few gallons of E85 but are willing to bolt up 200 whp over stock.

I'm willing to try out the blend. 3 gallons of E85 mixed with 13 gallons of 91 octane creates an E24 blend, which should be safe since Brazil's gas is mandated at E25 and our M3's are the same as theirs from what I understand.

[Longwong]

A couple days now really pushing it through the 100 degree temps and I can report with E25 mix the temperature guage is staying significantly cooler. It will not reach the hash mark after the middle no matter what. I was living at this hash mark with straight gas. Probably why it is running so well as it is cooling the IAT's and fuel mixture by having to dump more fuel in to keep a/f ratios normal and burn cooler. E25 with 91 octane gives you a 94 octane which is perfect plus the cooling effect which is not taken into account so its true anti-knock effect is greater.

No need for anymore on a stock tune as this is hitting the targets and it pulls way harder. It pulls in 100 degrees similar to how it feels at 70 degrees. Does not feel bogged down like normally happens in the extreme heat and I have been really flogging it to redline as much as I can.

Continue to log and all data logs are perfect. Fuel trims barely increased at 4. A/F is perfect, timing hits max target, and logs look beautiful.

It is a total no brainer, cheaper than race gas (same as 91) and better results for me as I used to use race gas mix with less results given no cooling benefit.

I will likely run 3 or 4 tanks in a row than run a couple straight 91 with one of the ethanol cleaners to remove any moisture or stuff left behind by e85 (so I read). Probably only will run one tank in between. I am excited to try this in winter when temps are down. Will really rip.

Surprised not more people do this. It really makes the car so friggin smooth its quite crazy. And if you log and all measures are absolutely perfect and exactly the same specs as straight 91 than you are golden in my view. The lines and such are easily built to handle e25. Heck we will be at e20 before we know it in the US

Summary 3 gallons e85 to 13.5 91 gives a roughly 94 octane mix but really it performs like a 94 octane with additional cooling and power potential from that. Love e85!!

[VCMpower]

nice

Originally Posted by Longwong

A couple days now really pushing it through the 100 degree temps and I can report with E25 mix the temperature guage is staying significantly cooler. It will not reach the hash mark after the middle no matter what. I was living at this hash mark with straight gas. Probably why it is running so well as it is cooling the IAT's and fuel mixture by having to dump more fuel in to keep a/f ratios normal and burn cooler. E25 with 91 octane gives you a 94 octane which is perfect plus the cooling effect which is not taken into account so its true anti-knock effect is greater.

No need for anymore on a stock tune as this is hitting the targets and it pulls way harder. It pulls in 100 degrees similar to how it feels at 70 degrees. Does not feel bogged down like normally happens in the extreme heat and I have been really flogging it to redline as much as I can.

Continue to log and all data logs are perfect. Fuel trims barely increased at 4. A/F is perfect, timing hits max target, and logs look beautiful.

It is a total no brainer, cheaper than race gas (same as 91) and better results for me as I used to use race gas mix with less results given no cooling benefit.

I will likely run 3 or 4 tanks in a row than run a couple straight 91 with one of the ethanol cleaners to remove any moisture or stuff left behind by e85 (so I read). Probably only will run one tank in between. I am excited to try this in winter when temps are down. Will really rip.

Surprised not more people do this. It really makes the car so friggin smooth its quite crazy. And if you log and all measures are absolutely perfect and exactly the same specs as straight 91 than you are golden in my view. The lines and such are easily built to handle e25. Heck we will be at e20 before we know it in the US

Summary 3 gallons e85 to 13.5 91 gives a roughly 94 octane mix but really it performs like a 94 octane with additional cooling and power potential from that. Love e85!!

[spool twice]

Ive been incontact with Mike BPM to get an "e30" ethanol file. Been wanting to run an e85 blend for awhile now since I've had great success running a 50% blend on my tuned 335

[spool twice]

Also...e85 doesn't effect iat's unlesd your squirting it prior to an iat sensor...it effects combustIon chamber temps

[Longwong]

Well the engine runs cooler, oil temp is noticeably cooler and thus IAT's can be cooler as less heat is being given off the engine. At the very least the cylinder runs cooler, and its clear watching my oil guage which is significantly cooler even in 110 degrees. I have been missing out all this time as e85 makes the car feel just amazing.

I measured mpg and with 25 percent e85 for 3 tanks I have dropped 1.5-2 mpg which is a fine trade-foff for me

[m3less]

This is great to hear!

[Longwong]

Atleast go give it a try. For peace of mind buy a BT tool and log the values just so you are not worried even though I promise you I have done this for days and values are fine. Our fuel pump can adjust to a supercharger system let alone adding 4 gallons of e85 I pushed it up to 4 gallons of e85 tonight so about a 30 percent mix and I think I found the sweet spot. Oil temps even cooler-110 degree flogging the car and the line stays just past the middle rather than all the way over to the next hash mark which is incredible. Pull is absolutely fierce just like in 50 degree weather. All logs and numbers are absolutely perfect with A/F, timing, iat's fuel trims barely adjusted. It is a no brainer and am surprised people have not been running non modded m3's on e85 mixes for so much longer or atleast on this board. The performance is absolutely night and day, atleast with an aftermarket tune. I have ESS but any of them would like compliment. And this is not an ESS e85 tune but rather their regular tune.

The cooling effects in the cylinder of dumping 3 times the fuel almost to stay consistent a/f ratio is a TON of cooling potential with that much fuel being dumped in the cylinder and cold cool cylinders really makes for potent combustion just like when temps are way down. SO much better than race gas. Race gas still could not hit timing targets when it go too hot because the cylinder temps would not even allow access to the most aggressive timing maps so no matter what octane you had, the maps that were aggressive were not even available.

[mdefalco25]

Longwong, any chance you can post up your logs? I think it would be nice for people to see the actual logs just for peace of mind. I ran e85 for two years in my STi prior to getting my M3 with zero issues. The minute I got on these boards I was in search to see if people were running this fuel and found very little until this thread. Great to see people are willing to experiment.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by mdefalco25

Longwong, any chance you can post up your logs? I think it would be nice for people to see the actual logs just for peace of mind. I ran e85 for two years in my STi prior to getting my M3 with zero issues. The minute I got on these boards I was in search to see if people were running this fuel and found very little until this thread. Great to see people are willing to experiment.

+1.

I'm bummed there's no e85 anywhere near me because I'd be pushing ESS to modify my set up (fuel pump, injectors, tune, etc) given the potential for power as the effective octane equivalent is quite high (something like 115??) and costs less than 91 octane. Given that I run a 650 kit in Cali I either have to run a few gallons of 100 pump (no biggie as its close to my office) or a can of Torco. Either way, the 100oct is $10/gallon and a bottle of Torco is $25 so it's a lot more expensive.

[SYZ]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

My comments (worries) were about adding e85 in addition to running a supercharger and the corresponding specific tune. Roman from ESS confirmed this.

I still think you'd be okay and would only see benefits from running an E85 blend, but go with what you're comfortable with.

I am curious if ESS has done any logging with a blend to verify their concerns or if the concerns are there because they just don't know.

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

My comments (worries) were about adding e85 in addition to running a supercharger and the corresponding specific tune. Roman from ESS confirmed this.

Of course new tune is needed in order to run E85. Who runs E85 with pump gas tune? Nice avatar btw

Is Bren from Brentuning active here? His ESS car runs on E85 and he said the car loved it so much ( and of course he tuned it for E85).

Originally Posted by SYZ

I still think you'd be okay and would only see benefits from running an E85 blend, but go with what you're comfortable with.

That really depends on the mixture. Pure E85 with pump gas tune = Not okay

[SYZ]

Originally Posted by Soorena

Of course new tune is needed in order to run E85. Who runs E85 with pump gas tune? Nice avatar btw

Is Bren from Brentuning active here? His ESS car runs on E85 and he said the car loved it so much ( and of course he tuned it for E85).



That really depends on the mixture. Pure E85 with pump gas tune = Not okay

yeah, I'm not advocating running straight E85 on a pump gas tune. This thread was NEVER about that.

[spool twice]

Did e25 blend yesterday with 93 octane..96degree weather...the car runs like its 70degrees out...heatsoak is minimized in stop n go traffic and the car rarely feels like its pulling timing. Definitely something I plan to do more often.

Now wonder how it will respond with increasing hpfp pressure, advancing ignition timing 3degrees, and running e30 or e40 with a proper tune.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by SYZ

lol at folks worried about splashing in a few gallons of E85 but are willing to bolt up 200 whp over stock.

I'm willing to try out the blend. 3 gallons of E85 mixed with 13 gallons of 91 octane creates an E24 blend, which should be safe since Brazil's gas is mandated at E25 and our M3's are the same as theirs from what I understand.

Valid points. Also. .. our lpfp are more robust than the n54 guys and they can run e50tunes with approx 450whp without upgrading any fueling.I know it's not apples to apples, but its something to consider.