M3 overweight?

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by ArtPE

from BMW:

Unladen weight: the figure quoted includes a 90 per cent tank filling, 68 kg for the driver and 7 kg for luggage. Unladen weight applies to vehicles with standard equipment. Optional equipment may increase this figure.

M5
Unladen weight EU 4012

fuel 6.2 x 0.9 x 18 ~ 100 lbs
75 kg ~ 165 lbs

4012 - 100 - 165 ~ 3747 lbs

hardly 'well over' 4000 lbs...

the C63 weighs 4035 when actually weighed

Hey Pro Engineer, cars don't drive themselves.....just in case you got lost in the numbers

[ArtPE]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Hey Pro Engineer, cars don't drive themselves.....just in case you got lost in the numbers

generally when discussing things that can carry variable loads it's best to use a curb wt...

not all people are the same size, are they?

it's Professional Engineer, as in licensing...

so with 4 fat passengers and luggage it weighs 5000 lbs, why not use that one?

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by ruff

Still clueless? Heres another hint:

You don't seem able to interpret things to well, so you misuse something to try and prove your point. Please continue, it is highly amusing.

[Keto]

Originally Posted by ruff

Have a problem seeing BMW's own published weight numbers? Welcome to reality. To answer your question, maybe I can address why BMW has the most vain fanboys in the auto industry. Keto, you work awfully hard to keep your reputation alive.

Name-calling is the hallmark of a poor comeback.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by ArtPE

generally when discussing things that can carry variable loads it's best to use a curb wt...

+1

Couldn't agree more. I find alternative methods of measuring weight useless; they almost always lead to confusion.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by Keto

Name-calling is the hallmark of a poor comeback.

Keto,

Let me first say, aren't you the one who started the name calling, stating I was a complainer? Tell me if I am wrong? Aren't you the one who has been taking cheap shots at my threads and posts adnauseum?

Your responses are cheap shots because you take the first shot and do not provide any substantive evidence, or even any argument for that matter, to refute what I have to say. Then you skip away with a grin. How am I suppose to respond? It would be nice to be able to have an honest, fun, and thorough discussion about a car we are both enanamored with, but you do not seem to have any interest in this, especially if there is a criticism of any kind regarding the M3. Again, I do not understand.

This thread is called: M3 overweight? with a question mark. The question mark is important. It is not called Keto overweight?....nor does it have your name in it. You respond to my criticisms, and for that matter, other peoples criticisms of BMW, as if others and I are criticisizing you personally. I don't understand this.

Do you disagree with the source from where I pulled BMW's published numbers? Do you love lots of mass in your sports cars and want BMW to provide more of it? Do you automatically not like others who criticize the M3? Are those who criticize BMW, as you so often like to call them.. "Haters"? Am I a "Hater"?. Would that make you a jump on the band wagon fair weather fan? I would venture to guess I followed BMW long before you even knew what the BMW acronym and Roundel meant. So if you want to argue about who is the more knowledgeable BMW-phile, be my guest. If you decide to take more pot shots at me, at least do your homework and respond with a real responses and a decent argument refuting what I have to say. Is this asking too much?

Isn't it ironic that Epacy says "Yuck!!" in referring to an M3 with DCT weighing in at an estimated 3754 pounds and yet for some reason you don't call him a complainer. And isn't even more ironic that Epacy laughs at your complainer cheap shot at me when I all I did was bolstering his own case about the M3 being too heavy. Actually, this happens to be something I do understand.

[lucid]

Ruff, what is your current overall opinion on the M3? Are you thinking about buying one? (Not being rhetorical, real questions).

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by ruff

Isn't it ironic that Epacy says "Yuck!!" in referring to an M3 with DCT weighing in at an estimated 3754 pounds and yet for some reason you don't call him a complainer. And isn't even more ironic that Epacy laughs at your complainer cheap shot at me when I all I did was bolstering his own case about the M3 being too heavy. Actually, this happens to be something I do understand.

Actually, you don't understand.

We have an ongoing MT v DCT debate and joke prodding going on between several members. That's all it was.
If you aren't going to stay informed on this board, then don't take posts and use them out of their context.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by lucid

Ruff, what is your current overall opinion on the M3? Are you thinking about buying one? (Not being rhetorical, real questions).

First off, sorry to hear about your back. If I may ask, what was the accident and extent of injury? I am an athlete myself and can understand your pain. The psychological pain of not being able to compete at the same level is the real tragedy.

Were you aware that the M3 weighed more than a 5 series? By the way, thanks for the spreadsheet on options. Very quick on the trigger and tremendously helpful. As I said in the pricing thread, BMW is really back on their game, at least from a marketing standpoint. People including myself believe BMW will lose money in the states at least on the base car, short term, but long term it will be a profit bananza. For one thing, most people will load it to the gills and it will end up being more expensive than say the ISF but the base price is the key to sales not the price of options. So even though the M will be more expensive than the ISF with equal options, the M owner will still think they bought it cheaper. Brilliant. Options are where car makers make their real profits. Marketing is a powerful thing.

I have always been interested in the sedan. I like stealth. I will get flamed for saying this, but in my opinon, the pricing really makes the coupe a non factor because the only real world advantage to owning the coupe is well...you have a coupe. I am a mid engine sports car fan. There nothing like having the balance and precision of the midship design and oh that engine puring behind your ears. It is no secret I have been in love with the Cayman S, ever since I drove it. It reminds me of a Ferrari Dino. To my eyes, it looks exotic, yet conteporary. No other car has made me turn away from BMW like this one. It is overpriced and underpowered and lacks an LSD but it is a truly special driving experience. Do yourself a disservice and drive it just once before you get your M3. It may ruin you as well.

It is amazing to see one can actually purchase a true performance bargain with the M3. As you know, BMW is not known for their bargains. This causes me great consternation and the practical side of me shouts this is an easy choice... M3 sedan. I just don't know if I can follow through with that decision, once a more poweful and more fuel efficient DFI facelifted Cayman hits these shores, most likely in the fall.
Quite honestly, my biggest concern about the M3 at this late date is the poorer than first expected fuel mileage. Frankly, it puts a damper on ones desire to drive the beast all hours of the day.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by Epacy

Actually, you don't understand.

We have an ongoing MT v DCT debate and joke prodding going on between several members. That's all it was.
If you aren't going to stay informed on this board, then don't take posts and use them out of their context.

Jeez Sir Epacy, I thought you and I were just joking...golly. But since you insist, I will take your helpful advise and look up the words context, ironic and hypocrite in the dictionary again.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by ruff

I thought you and I were just joking...golly.

Could have fooled me. Wait, apparently you did.

Your tone wasn't of joking.

[Jason-NY]

Here it is with a PICTURE of the M3 on the scale getting weighed. LOL

[Robert]

Originally Posted by ruff

Quite honestly, my biggest concern about the M3 at this late date is the poorer than first expected fuel mileage. Frankly, it puts a damper on ones desire to drive the beast all hours of the day.

You can't get a Cayman S anywhere near BMW's price point. Seriously, just take the plunge, M3 is not suppose to be practical.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by Jason-NY

Here it is with a PICTURE of the M3 on the scale getting weighed. LOL

Very interesting. Where did you obtain this? When was this done?

That is a good 50 pounds lights, and who knows what options are in there besides obviously EDC and 18s.

<long whistle> C63 4,000+ lbs

[Jason-NY]

Originally Posted by Epacy

Very interesting. Where did you obtain this? When was this done?

That is a good 50 pounds lights, and who knows what options are in there besides obviously EDC and 18s.

It's from Car & Driver Dec '07 issue.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Jason-NY

Here it is with a PICTURE of the M3 on the scale getting weighed. LOL

And that was with fuel in it, undoubtedly. So say curb weight of 3,500 +/-? E46 was 3,415.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by Jason-NY

It's from Car & Driver Dec '07 issue.

Hmm, perhaps I remember that. Definately a US spec RS4 with that weight.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

And that was with fuel in it, undoubtedly. So say curb weight of 3,500 +/-? E46 was 3,415.

Good point. Interesting debate on true weight then.

[Jason-NY]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

And that was with fuel in it, undoubtedly. So say curb weight of 3,500 +/-? E46 was 3,415.

Well, that is the definition of curb weight, all fluids including fuel, no people or luggage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb_weight

[lucid]

Originally Posted by ruff

For one thing, most people will load it to the gills and it will end up being more expensive than say the ISF but the base price is the key to sales not the price of options. So even though the M will be more expensive than the ISF with equal options, the M owner will still think they bought it cheaper. Brilliant. Options are where car makers make their real profits. Marketing is a powerful thing.

This is a very good observation. We can already see this happening based on posts on this forum. It's happening to me personally. One thing to keep in mind is that BMW has toned down the option pricing on this car significantly. They will still end up making a killing on them, but things do not seem as bad as the previous M3.

Originally Posted by ruff

I have always been interested in the sedan. I like stealth. I will get flamed for saying this, but in my opinon, the pricing really makes the coupe a non factor because the only real world advantage to owning the coupe is well...you have a coupe.

Yes, there is nothing special about the coupe from a performance standpoint. Actually, on this forum, I was surprised to learn that the coupe is not as stiff as the sedan. For me, it simply boils down to the aesthetics, which is subjective. I like the wider sweeping doors of the coupe.

Originally Posted by ruff

I am a mid engine sports car fan. There nothing like having the balance and precision of the midship design and oh that engine puring behind your ears. It is no secret I have been in love with the Cayman S, ever since I drove it. It reminds me of a Ferrari Dino. To my eyes, it looks exotic, yet conteporary. No other car has made me turn away from BMW like this one. It is overpriced and underpowered and lacks an LSD but it is a truly special driving experience. Do yourself a disservice and drive it just once before you get your M3. It may ruin you as well.

Believe it or not, I have recently spent a significant amount of type at the nearby Porsche dealership, and had several PM exchanges with Devo on the 911. I hear what you are saying about the Cayman. I sat in it for 15 minutes and admired its superior build quality. But it boiled down the space issues; I did not take it out for a drive. It simply is too small and has very limited cargo space. That won't do it for me.

Then I started thinking about the 911. You can at least stick some stuff on the back seats, and even a person for 30-45 minutes at a time. I discovered that the 911 is selling at significant discounts ($5k-$7k). However, after doing some research, and chatting with Devo, it became clear the base car is not really there in terms of performance--even if it gets another 20hp with the DFI upgrade--and the car to consider is really the 911S. I did some pricing around that, and it simply exceeds my budget for this purchase. But the road feel I experienced in my friend's 911 is still with me. The lighter weight does make a difference in handling--despite the rear bias--and it is noticeable right away.

Originally Posted by ruff

It is amazing to see one can actually purchase a true performance bargain with the M3. As you know, BMW is not known for their bargains. This causes me great consternation and the practical side of me shouts this is an easy choice... M3 sedan.

The M3 proposition as a whole is indeed difficult to pass at this point.

Originally Posted by ruff

Quite honestly, my biggest concern about the M3 at this late date is the poorer than first expected fuel mileage.

I am not sure if one can expect much better from a car that weighs as much as it weighs and has 400+ hp. DFI would help, but it clearly is not on the radar.

Originally Posted by ruff

First off, sorry to hear about your back. If I may ask, what was the accident and extent of injury? I am an athlete myself and can understand your pain. The psychological pain of not being able to compete at the same level is the real tragedy.

Thanks for asking. They say spine issues add up over time. I raced bicycles (road racing) competitively ages 10-18. My coach was making arrangements for me to go to Europe and try my luck as a pro, but I chose college, and then raced in a college some. I had plenty of falls, many at 40+ mph. 7 years ago I had a nasty surfing accident and got sucked in under a large wave. Finally, 4 years ago, I was sprinting as fast as I can after the ball in a soccer game when a guy ran into me with his knee. I didn't see him at all, and apparently bounced high into the air, flipped around, and landed smack on my upper back without bracing, fracturing a rib, vertebra, herniating two thoracic discs. I probably would have been okay if I was 25, but at 32, things give away. I was stupid enough to get up and play for another 15 minutes...

What sport are you into? Whatever it is, if you are over 30, don't push yourself too hard.

[Keto]

Originally Posted by ruff

Keto,

Let me first say, aren't you the one who started the name calling, stating I was a complainer? Tell me if I am wrong? Aren't you the one who has been taking cheap shots at my threads and posts adnauseum?

There's a difference between sarcastically asking if you have more complaints and calling you a complainer.

Originally Posted by Keto

Ruff, can you give us a preview of next month's complaint?

Given that you generally start threads to complain about some aspect of the car not to your liking, ribbing you about that tendency is not a stretch, as other members have indicated in this thread.

You should note, also, that you are quick to drop the label "fanboy" on everyone, which is borderline insulting, except less so when you use it so often.

Your responses are cheap shots because you take the first shot and do not provide any substantive evidence, or even any argument for that matter, to refute what I have to say. Then you skip away with a grin. How am I suppose to respond? It would be nice to be able to have an honest, fun, and thorough discussion about a car we are both enanamored with, but you do not seem to have any interest in this, especially if there is a criticism of any kind regarding the M3. Again, I do not understand.

If we are being honest, the tone of your posts does not come across as being enamored with the car. I will accept what you say at face value.

This thread is called: M3 overweight? with a question mark. The question mark is important. It is not called Keto overweight?....nor does it have your name in it. You respond to my criticisms, and for that matter, other peoples criticisms of BMW, as if others and I are criticisizing you personally. I don't understand this.

I don't understand how mocking your latest complaint thread implies that I am personalizing the complaint.

Do you disagree with the source from where I pulled BMW's published numbers? Do you love lots of mass in your sports cars and want BMW to provide more of it? Do you automatically not like others who criticize the M3? Are those who criticize BMW, as you so often like to call them.. "Haters"? Am I a "Hater"?. Would that make you a jump on the band wagon fair weather fan? I would venture to guess I followed BMW long before you even knew what the BMW acronym and Roundel meant. So if you want to argue about who is the more knowledgeable BMW-phile, be my guest. If you decide to take more pot shots at me, at least do your homework and respond with a real responses and a decent argument refuting what I have to say. Is this asking too much?

Again, given the tone of your previous posts, I am not sure that an actual reasoned discussion is your goal. You are certainly no Juzef, however. I did read a reply in a recent thread where you actually sounded positive about the car, and this changed my opinion of you somewhat. You can see from reactions to your various threads that I likely am not the only person who questions your motives. Note Lucid (who tries to be very nice to you) and his response in this thread -- people don't think you're serious about the car. This is a forum for people who are interested in the M3, and thus I tend to mock those who are here against that purpose. I am not the information broker that South is, nor the racer that Enigma or Bruce are, nor the engineer that Swamp is, nor the tireless monitor of threads that Epacy is, etc. etc. In the highly technical threads, I read and learn. I'll leave the weight discussion to those more knowledgeable. I will say that I'm not driving an M5 currently because I wanted a more nimble car, so I, too, would like to see more weight reduction.

Isn't it ironic that Epacy says "Yuck!!" in referring to an M3 with DCT weighing in at an estimated 3754 pounds and yet for some reason you don't call him a complainer. And isn't even more ironic that Epacy laughs at your complainer cheap shot at me when I all I did was bolstering his own case about the M3 being too heavy. Actually, this happens to be something I do understand.

Epacy has clearly left an evidence trail that he is serious about the M3. Thus, his complaints carry weight. The posts from you that I have read suggest to me that you enjoy provoking negative responses from the membership, so it's difficult to take what you say seriously. Text is an excellent medium to convey subtlety and nuance, but in the sphere of the rapid, unedited Internet, the opposite is more often true. The good points you make get lost in the verbage. You certainly have a right to be negative about whatever you want, but don't be surprised when constant negativity provokes negative responses in a forum designated for M3 fans.

[Jason-NY]

Can anyone see Greg's post on this thread from 11:18pm?? I got it in the email notification but it just won't show up in this thread for me to reply?!? No idea what's going on. This board always gives me lots of problems for some reason, I made a post to the admins/moderators asking for assistance in that section.

Anyways, Greg the answer to your question is that unladen weight (EU) includes 75kg (165lbs) for driver and luggage.