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12-19-2012, 11:05 PM | #23 | |
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My point was that both WRC and F1 requires very specialized skills that outsiders don't pick very easily. But NASCAR requires the most generic driving skills, so you can move from F1 and Indy to NASCAR with more success, than the other way around. I remain at my opinion that Alonso would lap better in NASCAR than Jimmy Johnson would in F1. I think it's much harder to drive a F1 car well, perhaps the hardest of all. WRC could give it some competition in this respect simply because the terrain varies so much (dirt, ice, snow, gravel, Tarmac each with unique characteristics), because it's impossible to learn a stage the way you do a circuit, because everything is less predictable and you have to rely on the navigator which is a big leap of faith.
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12-20-2012, 10:25 AM | #24 |
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I think one mistake that's being made in the racing comments is the focus on "pure" driving skill vs. racing skill. F1 does require more accelerating, braking, understanding of the line around corners, etc, which you'd think means an F1 driver has better pure driving skills. But NASCAR requires more ability to handle a car in a bunch, reacting to others around you, reacting to the car moving (either by itself or with help), avoiding crashes, and jumping on opportunities to link up and pass others.
So maybe NASCAR is "less" about the car and more about successfully racing in a crowded environment, while F1 is "more" about the car, and less about the activities of others in the race. Both are equally intense racing, but require very different car skills?
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01-15-2013, 11:10 AM | #26 | |
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01-15-2013, 11:14 AM | #27 | |
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I can't find the precise clip yet, but here's some of the off air discussion. http://transmission.blogs.topgear.co...-nascar-racer/ |
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01-15-2013, 10:02 PM | #28 | |
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01-15-2013, 11:35 PM | #29 | ||
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01-17-2013, 07:53 PM | #30 | |
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01-17-2013, 09:18 PM | #31 | |
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01-26-2013, 12:00 PM | #32 | |
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JPM is multiple race winner and was a contender for the 2003 WDC and had he not had that run-in with Rubens at Indy '03, could well have been the one vying with MS for the '03 title instead of Kimi. JPM WAS the Hamilton of that period...fast, a bit erratic and prone to mind fades, but always very fast and a contender in any car. Oh...one minor detail...JV and JPM also happen to be one of the very, very few drivers to have won both the Indy 500 AND the CART championships, in addition to their multiple F1 victories. Yet you seem to think Hamilton is a great driver, but JPM and JV are not. Presume you've been watching F1 for only the last few years, know nothing about it's history, and really don't have a clue what you're talking about. |
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01-26-2013, 12:47 PM | #33 | |
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I never said Villeneuve or Montoya can't drive. Of course they can. They are certified racing drivers. What I said was that they are nothing special when compared to other F1 drivers. Yes, JV was big time lucky to get into a Williams that was light years ahead of the competition in pace and reliability. That's how he got 2nd place in 1996. And he also won in 1997 for the same reason, in addition to also having a weak teammate that year. Soon after that, his career spiraled down into oblivion and he spent the rest of his F1 career in the midfield or even at the back of the grid, never to make any further impact. Villenuve is more like the Jenson button of his era. An ok driver who was in the right place at the right time to capitalize on a massive stroke of good luck and translated that into a WDC. As for Montoya, give me a break. He only won 7 races in 6 seasons. That's an average of just over one race win per season, not exactly legendary. M. Schumacher won more than that many races in one season. So he was a championship contender in 2003, so what? even the likes of Webber or Massa were championship contenders. Montoya got totally outraced by Raikkonen in the 1.5 seasons they spent at Mclaren, before he went off to nascar. He's an ok driver, but not even close to being one of the elites of F1. |
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01-26-2013, 01:57 PM | #34 |
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Oh...give me a break re Hamilton. Lewis Hamilton has got to be one of the most overrated drivers in F1. He may yet turn out to be a great, but so far he has only 1 WDC - exactly the same number as JV, Button, Mansell and a bunch of others - yet somehow he's made out to be in the same league as Senna and Prost. Plus he's been fortunate to drive for MacLaren his entire F1 career, so obviously his stats will look far more impressive than someone like JPM or Jenson who had to spend time driving for lesser teams. Just look at Jenson's stats from 09-12 and for the four years prior to it.
As for JPM being beaten by Kimi in their 1.5 seasons...so what, Hamilton was destroyed by Button in 2011 and was within a few points of LH in both 2010 and 12. And in case you don't remember, Massa beat Kimi in 08 and was leading him again in 09 until the accident. So both Massa and Jenson who you seem to think fall in the same class as JPM/JV have outscored your greats - Kimi & Lewis - while driving alongside them in the same team. Oh and speaking of '08, if ever there was a driver who...I hate to say this...but 'lucked' into a F1 title, it has to be Lewis Hamilton. If only Timo Glock had managed to keep his car on track through one more corner, it would be Massa who we would hailing as the '08 WDC and not Lewis Hamilton In fact, the similarities between JV's and LH's careers are pretty similar if you think about it...WDCs while driving for a top team who then move to a lower team. The Mercedes move could very well turn out to be the start of a downward spiral in LH's career...just like the BAR move was for JV. So until the time LH proves me otherwise at Mercedes, I rate him no better than JV or JPM. But again, this is just my opinion and yours obviously differs..so we just need to disagree here. |
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