Performance Friction EPIC Rotor Fail :(

[ShadeD1]

I have another set of rings but I'm saving them for backups. I'm using the stock euro floater rotors and have been quite happy with them for the past 6 or 7 events.

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

PFC ended up giving me a refund. I'm kind of bummed because I really wanted to use the rotors. I was thinking that I could have wrapped one layer of safety wire around my spindle to center the rotor and all would have been fine. Oh well, perhaps it's time for big brake kit..
ShadeD1 are you back on track with a new set of PFC rings?

[GrumpyBimmerFan]

Is there any update on these rotors? I'm in need of a new set, and was wondering if the design was changed, or if there are any more fitment issues?

[mlhj83]

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

Has anyone else running the PFC rotors noticed that the centering ring is ever so slightly larger than the stock rotor's? It makes it impossible to center the rotor on the hub and results in a wheel vibration that feels like an imbalanced wheel. I can't seem to get a returned call from PFC in the 3 months that I've been leaving them messages. I've run dozens of cheapo centric rotors and never had such a poor fit as these $900 rotors.
I do like the design of the PFC rotor but I will certainly be keeping a watchful eye on mine after reading this thread.

The rotor in the 1st post does look a bit glazed but the stress cracks don't look that bad to me. Perhaps it's hard to tell from the picture but the cracks don't seem to run to the edge of the rotor. My stock rotors looked about the same when I ditched them for the PFC's.

Originally Posted by JamesClay

These were made using sample parts from our old project car, now our #79 car, which PFC held through the prototyping stage. We bought the entire first production run of these. We more recently measured cars and measured our stock - all is correct. There is a step on the hub which could cause an error in measurement, but the fit is correct. There has been no change in spec from PFC and there has been no obvious change in hub or hub PN from BMW. We have never had reported issues from our customers on this part and I would expect that to remain the same.

Originally Posted by attila

OMG!!! Balancing the wheels kills me since I have the PFC rotors!! Now I have an answer!! I rebalanced my front wheels at leat 4 times, have the front suspension recheked two times, and no one could figure out why I have the steering wheel vibration. It starts about 75-80 and it is very very annoying!!
I will reinstall my old rotors and if it is the PFC rotor i will never ever get close to any PFC product!!!

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

The customer service from PFC has been horrendous. It took months to get any type of call back from them just to have a dialogue about the fitment. You'd think if a company heard that someone was having an issue with their rotors they would want to get to the bottom of it.
After I convinced PFC that they were not installed improperly because the alignment pins only allow for installation in one orientation, there responses were as follows:

"The engineers at Performance Friction have determined that the spindles (hubs) are not "OEM" from the factory, even though, they still may be the original ones that came on your car, or some type of aftermarket spindles. There was a slight change and these do not correctly fit the PFC hats. Their suggestion was to source or have some centering rings fabricated to aid in keeping the hat tight around the hub."

I replied saying that I bought the car with 0 miles on it and have not changed the hubs. My OEM wheels, 2 sets of aftermarket wheels and 2 sets of oem rotors fit the spindle just fine. Also worth noting is that the part numbers for the rotors and hubs have not changed from 08 +

PFC's response: as I’ve said it is obvious that there has been a model year change. We currently do not make the exact hat to fit this application. Possible in the future."

It's disappointing that a company that markets their products as having high tolerances (and charges a premium for it) has such poor fitment on my car. By my measurement, the center hole on my PFC rotors are approx .5mm larger than my oem rotors. While this is small variance, it makes it impossible to perfectly center the rotor which causes vibration at freeway speeds that feels like an imbalanced wheel. When you spin the rotor by hand, you can see it moving in a slight elliptical pattern. I've been running cheapo centric rotors for about 10 years on other track cars and never experienced any fitment issues like this.
At any rate, I just sent the rotors back to PFC last week for inspection so we'll see where that goes. I'll keep everyone posted. For now, I'd stay away from these. Tirerack actually sells Centric rotors for the e9x M3 now, but only drilled. They said that they will eventually carry standard non-drilled. Perhaps those are the better option for us. Too bad, because I do like the design of the PFC rotor.

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

Sounds like you could have the same problem. When I put my oem rotors back on my vibration went away.
When you re-install your old rotors measure the center hole of the OEM and PFC's and see if they have any variance. It would be nice to show that I'm not the only one affected.

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I have the PFC BBK, front and rear, and have had no rotor fitment issues nor do I have a vibration/unbalance due to the rotors.

I'm guessing the designs of the mounting hats are different between the stock and BBK rotors due to rotor thickness and/or caliper placement but they had to be designed using the same measurements taken from James' stock e92 M3. The current issue of GRM has a brake pad comparison test and they used PFC rotors for all pads, and if James thought there was a safety issue with the basic design I doubt he'd be heading into the turn 1 braking zone at VIR > 150 mph as well as using them on the GS race cars. I could be wrong but I believe Ganassi Racing uses the same design on their DP race cars.

For people considering the PFC BBK...Compared to the AP Racing BBK on my e46 M3, the PFC calipers have better initial bite/release characteristics and modulation. I've never driven an e9x M3 with APs calipers so I can't make a direct comparison. However, comparing the two setups I'd have to say overall braking performance is very similar (no fade, no soft pedal under extreme conditions) and given the extra weight of the e92 M3 (plus my e46 is not at stock weight) that's impressive - if I had to do it all over again I'd still go with PFC. Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.

Right, time for my turn regarding issues with PF DD V2 in OEM size for OEM caliper.

Purchased a couple of months back, had it professionally installed (hubs cleaned), and vibration was detected at 75mph onwards (not under braking). Measurement showed runout out of about 1mm in the radial and lateral direction on both discs. PF discs were sent back to PF (still investigating the cause) and the OEM discs were put back on. Results: no out-of-tolerance runout or vibration with OEM discs.

PF have sent a new set without explanation as to why the previous set was defective. Replacement PF discs awaiting fitment and measurement of runout. What is going on with PF?

[JamesClay]

Originally Posted by mlhj83

Right, time for my turn regarding issues with PF DD V2 in OEM size for OEM caliper.

Purchased a couple of months back, had it professionally installed (hubs cleaned), and vibration was detected at 75mph onwards (not under braking). Measurement showed runout out of about 1mm in the radial and lateral direction on both discs. PF discs were sent back to PF (still investigating the cause) and the OEM discs were put back on. Results: no out-of-tolerance runout or vibration with OEM discs.

PF have sent a new set without explanation as to why the previous set was defective. Replacement PF discs awaiting fitment and measurement of runout. What is going on with PF?

I see you are in London, so you may be dealing with the UK, but this certainly doesn't sound like the PFC I know here in the US. I would love to track down the problem and provide the missing answers for you and anyone else that might be interested - I would need an RGA and PN or model fitment. You can email me at james@bimmerworld.com with this info as well.

Thanks
James

[mlhj83]

Originally Posted by JamesClay

I see you are in London, so you may be dealing with the UK, but this certainly doesn't sound like the PFC I know here in the US. I would love to track down the problem and provide the missing answers for you and anyone else that might be interested - I would need an RGA and PN or model fitment. You can email me at james@bimmerworld.com with this info as well.

Thanks
James

Thanks. PF have a UK branch, but it's still under PF in the US. The defective PF discs have been sent back (last week) to the US for investigation, but no info as to the cause as yet. Will see whether I can get any numbers for you to trace my discs at PF US.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by mlhj83

Right, time for my turn regarding issues with PF DD V2 in OEM size for OEM caliper.

Purchased a couple of months back, had it professionally installed (hubs cleaned), and vibration was detected at 75mph onwards (not under braking). Measurement showed runout out of about 1mm in the radial and lateral direction on both discs. PF discs were sent back to PF (still investigating the cause) and the OEM discs were put back on. Results: no out-of-tolerance runout or vibration with OEM discs.

PF have sent a new set without explanation as to why the previous set was defective. Replacement PF discs awaiting fitment and measurement of runout. What is going on with PF?

I agree with James on the communication of PFC USA vs PFC "UK" - they are very responsive to questions, even to me as a customer. I'm running their e9x M3 Z31 caliper brake kits, which use DD 372/371 mm rotors, on both of my M3s and I've had zero issues with their rotors causing any type of vibration at any speed under acceleration or braking. Personally, I've has zero braking issues of any kind.

It sounds like "UK" was pretty responsive considering they gave you a new set of rotor rings (and hats?) at the same time they shipped your original rotors back to PFC USA - didn't leave you rotor-less! I hope once they've had a chance to examine your rotors (and hats) they'll have an answer for you

[mlhj83]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I agree with James on the communication of PFC USA vs PFC "UK" - they are very responsive to questions, even to me as a customer. I'm running their e9x M3 Z31 caliper brake kits, which use DD 372/371 mm rotors, on both of my M3s and I've had zero issues with their rotors causing any type of vibration at any speed under acceleration or braking. Personally, I've has zero braking issues of any kind.

It sounds like "UK" was pretty responsive considering they gave you a new set of rotor rings (and hats?) at the same time they shipped your original rotors back to PFC USA - didn't leave you rotor-less! I hope once they've had a chance to examine your rotors (and hats) they'll have an answer for you

Good to hear that your kit is working great for you, as i'm considering returning the discs and getting their front kit for my track use. I'm just perplexed as to why the first set of PF discs were defective in the first place; they were spinning elliptically causing vibration, and this was immediately after fitment. They were properly installed on a clean hub too and weren't loose.

[mlhj83]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I agree with James on the communication of PFC USA vs PFC "UK" - they are very responsive to questions, even to me as a customer. I'm running their e9x M3 Z31 caliper brake kits, which use DD 372/371 mm rotors, on both of my M3s and I've had zero issues with their rotors causing any type of vibration at any speed under acceleration or braking. Personally, I've has zero braking issues of any kind.

It sounds like "UK" was pretty responsive considering they gave you a new set of rotor rings (and hats?) at the same time they shipped your original rotors back to PFC USA - didn't leave you rotor-less! I hope once they've had a chance to examine your rotors (and hats) they'll have an answer for you

They did in fact leave me "rotor-less" for over a week; I ran my used OEM discs during that time. Have ordered the 372 Z31 front kit, and I'm still waiting to hear back as to the cause of the problem with the first set of discs.

[JamesClay]

Originally Posted by Theodore

Bumping an old thread because it appears to be the most appropriate place for my post. I just installed my brand new PFC Direct Drive V2 Rotors (part #'s 357.062.85 and 357.062.86) yesterday and I'm very disappointed to report that I too am experiencing a new vibration in the front wheels from about 75 MPH and above, without braking, just driving. I sent an email to the company from the "contact us" section of their website. I'll post back their response for anyone else considering these rotors. For those who received warranty replacements, did the replacements fix the issue?

A vibration at speed without braking isn't a rotor problem. You could try several more things to diagnose - lightly apply brakes while driving and see if it changes the vibration. The only way this could be a disc-related vibration is if they are significantly out of balance and that is just something I have never seen on the PFC - or really any BMW rotor. I would anticipate something to do with rotating the tires or installation of the wheels - hubcentric spacers, lug torque, etc. Dig a little deeper - I don't think I would stop the diagnosis at brake discs.

[JamesClay]

Originally Posted by Theodore

James, 3 other members (mlhj83, RickyBobby and attila) posted a similar experience in this thread alone. In this other post, mlhj83 said he had confirmation PFC that there was a manufacturing defect causing this type of vibration, at least in the E9X M3 rotors he received. Less than 100 miles later, my old 78k mile OEM rotors are back on and the vibration is gone again, as it was the day before I put the DD rotors on, no spacers ever and I always torque to spec so I think I'm on the right track. Hoping to get this sorted and get them back on my car.

Whoa. OK - I'm sorry. I talked to my office guys about it. Apparently there was something off in a V2 batch and I'll learn a little more because I am a bit baffled that it can be vibration as described from a disc, but clearly the evidence is there. I was thinking V3 and I know we have had no issue with those - and they have been out for over a year, and V2 weren't available for a year prior to that. I'm not sure how you would have gotten V2 recently, but sounds like I shouldn't stick my nose in. We do have V3 on the shelf if a solution is needed.

[msan]

Just buy OE or OEM and not worry about this stuff IMO.

Here's a guy with possibly a bad set of V3.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ight=pfc+rotor

[RickyBobby]

Originally Posted by Theodore

Update 3/5/18: Brought the rotors to my local machine shop, measured .014" out of round on front left rotor and 0.18" out of round front right rotor. Advertised to not be more than .001" out of round. More than one week in and no response to email sent to PFC directly through their website.

This sounds like the same issue I had. Recommend getting your money back and going with OEM (or a big brake kit).

[blowbackpolicy]

I updated my other thread but I just got the runout measurements for my PFC Direct Drive V3. The driver side was measured .058 and the passenger was .062. They were way out of spec. I switched to the ECS 2-piece rotors and all vibration/steering shimmy went away. The PFCs are going back for a refund.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by blowbackpolicy

I updated my other thread but I just got the runout measurements for my PFC Direct Drive V3. The driver side was measured .058 and the passenger was .062. They were way out of spec. I switched to the ECS 2-piece rotors and all vibration/steering shimmy went away. The PFCs are going back for a refund.

wow, that sucks

Glad you're getting a refund!

[blowbackpolicy]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

wow, that sucks

Glad you're getting a refund!

I know! I was really looking forward to the PFCs. Everything I read said that they were the best stock size option for our cars. I had them bookmarked forever before pulling the trigger and ordering them. They look and feel awesome (lighter and I love the ring mounting system) but they did not work out on the car. I probably would have gambled with a second set but I have a HPDE on Saturday and did not want to risk it. We'll see how the ECS rotors hold up. Thanks for the advice/help!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by blowbackpolicy

I know! I was really looking forward to the PFCs. Everything I read said that they were the best stock size option for our cars. I had them bookmarked forever before pulling the trigger and ordering them. They look and feel awesome (lighter and I love the ring mounting system) but they did not work out on the car. I probably would have gambled with a second set but I have a HPDE on Saturday and did not want to risk it. We'll see how the ECS rotors hold up. Thanks for the advice/help!

It's such a shame because they are the best option for the track for sure. But if yours were out of spec it's of little consolation!

Back in my E46 days the difference between stock and PFC was so massive people didn't believe me, but then someone went out with a temp gun and verified the delta was indeed massive.

Anyway, enjoy your track day!